Changement du rogue a la 10.2!

Hello !
Nous avons enfin les premieres modifications pour le rogue a la 10.2 !
L’assassinat ça va être tellement fort <3

Vos avis ?


Developer’s note: In Guardians of the Dream we are updating all 4 Rogue talent trees to bring them up to current standards.
A sweeping pass was needed to make significant adjustments to address notable concerns, like: moving the first gate from row 3 to row 4 to match all other classes; improving pathing and increasing interconnectedness on every tree; removing 3-point nodes; and reducing the percentage of minor DPS talents taken in the Class tree to make room for more flavorful and robust utility options. We also wanted to use the opportunity where so many things are changing to rework or redesign some talents that needed the update, and also just to make some new talents to experience and (hopefully) enjoy. Let us know what you think!

Many changes have been made to Class talent positions and connections.

Sap is now a baseline ability.

Shiv damage increased by 20%.

Shiv now costs 30 Energy (was 20) and has a 30 second cooldown (was 25 seconds).

New Talent: Featherfoot (Passive) – Sprint increases movement speed by an additional 30%, and duration increased by 4 seconds.
New Talent: Superior Mixture (Passive) – Crippling Poison reduced movement speed by an additional 10%.

New Talent: Graceful Guile (Passive) – Feint has 1 additional charge.

New Talent: Stillshroud (Passive) – Shroud of Concealment has 50% reduced cooldown.
Vigor’s location has changed and is now a 2-point talent, increasing max Energy by 50/100 and increasing Energy regeneration by 8/15%.

Deadly Precision is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.

Nightstalker’s location has changed and now increases damage while Stealth is active by 8/15% (was 4/8%).

Reverberation now increases Echoing Reprimand damage by 100% (was 75%).

Deadened Nerves now reduces physical damage taken by 5% (was 3%).

Echoing Reprimand now charges a combo point from 3/4/5 (was 2/3/4).

Marked for Death has been adjusted:
Cooldown adjusted to 40 seconds for all specializations (was 30 seconds for Assassination and Subtlety, 60 seconds for Outlaw).

Grants full combo points (was 5).
Now increases the damage your finishing moves deal to the target by 15%.
Lasts 15 seconds (was 60 seconds) and resets cooldown if the target dies during the effect.


Developers’ note: Assassination is known for having strong single target damage, but has two areas of concern we hope to address in Guardians of the Dream. First and foremost, their AoE has been notably weak and left them far behind the pack for M+ and certain raid encounter types. Secondly, Assassination’s damage performance does not improve at a similar rate compared to most specs when players improve their play and coordination to take on bigger challenges, like when moving from Heroic to Mythic level raiding. We hope the changes here will raise the floor of Assassination’s AoE, especially before reaching and needing capstone talents to do so, and that it will feel like a distinct Assassination-like way to deliver AoE damage and not just copy/paste of another spec’s gameplay. As for the second concern, it’s very important to us that we not completely rewrite the book and threaten to undermine what makes Assassination appealing for so many players from both fantasy and gameplay perspectives. That said, the changes aimed at addressing this issue are more subtle. We intend to create more room for players tackling high-end content to use their resources and encounter knowledge to get improved performance outcomes, while not increasing the number of hoops players at all levels need to jump through to get results similar to the past.
Many changes have been made to Assassination talent positions and connections.

Shadowstep is now a baseline ability.
New Talent: Sudden Demise (Passive) – Your Bleed damage increased by 10%. Targets below 35% health instantly bleed out and take fatal damage when the remaining Bleed damage you would deal to them exceeds 200% of their remaining health.
New Talent: Caustic Spatter (Passive) – Using Mutilate on a target afflicted by your Rupture and Lethal Poison applies Caustic Spatter for 10 seconds. Caustic Spatter causes 30% of Poison damage dealt to splash onto other nearby enemies, reduced beyond 5 targets. Limit 1.
New Talent: Path of Blood (Passive) – Increases max Energy by 100.
Envenom duration reduced by 1 second.
Improved Shiv now increases Nature damage by 30% (was 20%).
Venomous Wounds’ effect now restores 8 Energy (was 7).
Elaborate Planning is now a 1-point talent, and its effect now increases damage by 5% (was 4/8%).
Improved Poisons is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.
Bloody Mess is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.
Thrown Precision has been adjusted:
No longer increases Fan of Knives damage by 15%.
Now increases Fan of Knives critical strike chance by 10% (was 5%).
Now causes Fan of Knives critical strikes to always apply your weapon poisons.
Seal Fate has changed:
Moved from Class talent tree to Assassination.
Now a 1-point talent.
Effect now always triggers from critical strikes (was 50/100% chance).
Internal Bleeding’s effect is now also applied by Rupture.
Crimson Tempest has been adjusted:
No longer has an instant damage component.
Now has an initial damage over time tick on application.
Damage per tick reduced by 25%.
Duration increased by 2 seconds.
Now deals bonus damage when multiple enemies are afflicted, increased by 20% per target, up to 100%.
Now deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets (was 8).
Lightweight Shiv now increases Shiv damage by 100% in addition to its previous effect.
Exsanguinate has been redesigned:
Active version: 1 minute cooldown. Garrote, Rupture, and Crimson Tempest consume 10 Energy to duplicate 100% of any damage dealt. Lasts 10 seconds.
Passive version: While above 100 Energy your Garrote, Rupture, and Crimson Tempest consume 8 Energy to duplicate 40% of any damage dealt.
Developers’ note: There are two updated versions of Exsanguinate available to test on PTR, located on the talent tree as a choice node with one being active and one being passive. Based on testing, feedback, and possible iteration, we will likely keep one to continue on for patch release and discard the other.
Flying Daggers now increases Fan of Knives damage by 15%, in addition to its previous effects.
Venom Rush’s effect now refunds 6 Energy (was 7).
Vicious Venoms has been adjusted:
Bonus damage effect increased to 35/70% (was 10/20%).
Now increases Ambush and Mutilate energy costs by 5/10.
Poison Bomb now affects an area within 8 yards (was 6 yards).
Zoldyck Recipe is now a 2-point talent. Per point values have not changed.
Dashing Scoundrel effect now generates 1/2 Energy (was 1 Energy at both ranks).
Scent of Blood is now a 2-point talent, and its effect now increases Agility by 1.5/3% (was 1/2/3%).
Arterial Precision’s effect now increases Bleed damage by 30% (was 20%).
Dragon-Tempered Blades now causes your weapon poisons to apply 30% less frequently, in addition to its previous effect.
Indiscriminate Carnage has been redesigned – Garrote and Rupture apply to 2 additional nearby enemies when used from Stealth and for 3 seconds after breaking Stealth. Passive Talent.


Developers’ note: Outlaw’s talent tree has produced some fun gameplay so far in Dragonflight, but it has significant issues with rigidity, lack of pathing options, high tension between early tree DPS and utility nodes, and far above average number of unskippable core skills. Some of those skills have returned to Outlaw baseline, creating room for improved pathing and interconnectedness. We have also reworked or redesigned some existing talents and introduced some new options, with the hope that it will expand the gameplay space and options available to popular Outlaw builds.
Many changes have been made to Outlaw talent positions and connections.
Grappling Hook, Blade Flurry, Roll the Bones, and Restless Blades are now baseline abilities.
Prey on the Weak has moved from the Class talent tree to Outlaw, and has been renamed Sting Like a Bee.
New Talent: Airborne Irritant (Passive) – Blind applies to 4 additional nearby enemies while Blade Flurry is active, but has 20% reduced duration.
New Talent: Crackshot (Passive) – Between the Eyes has no cooldown and also Dispatches the target for 100% of normal damage when used from Stealth.
New Talent: Underhanded Upper Hand (Passive) – Slice and Dice does not lose duration during Blade Flurry. Blade Flurry does not lose duration during Adrenaline Rush. Adrenaline Rush does not lose duration during Stealth. Stealth abilities can be used for an additional 3 seconds after Stealth breaks.
Between the Eyes’ critical bonus effect is now a buff on the Rogue (was a debuff on the target).
Thief’s Versatility has been adjusted:
Moved from Class talent tree to Outlaw.
Now a 1-point talent.
Now increases Versatility by 4% (was 2/4%).
Fatal Flourish effect now has a 50% chance to trigger (was 60%).
Deft Maneuvers has been redesigned – Blade Flurry’s initial damage is increased by 100% and generates 1 combo point per target struck.
Swift Slasher has been adjusted – Now causes Slice and Dice to grant additional attack speed equal to 100% of your Haste (was based on combo points spent).
Ace Up Your Sleeve now grants 5 combo points (was 4) and has 5% chance per combo point to trigger (was 4%).
Triple Threat is now a 1-point talent, granting 10% chance to trigger its effect (was 5/10%).
Improved Main Gauche is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.
Weaponmaster has been removed.
Improved Adrenaline Rush has been adjusted:
No longer grants full combo points when Adrenaline Rush ends.
Now grants full Energy when Adrenaline Rush ends.
Ghostly Strike has been adjusted:
No longer affected by global cooldown.
Cooldown increased to 1.5 minutes (was 35 seconds).
Energy cost increased to 35 (was 30).
Damage increased by 33%.
Now increases damage to the target by 15% (was 10%).
Duration increased to 12 seconds (was 10 seconds).
Dreadblades has been adjusted:
Effect now grants full combo points (was 5).
Energy cost reduced to 30 (was 40).
Backlash damage increased to 8% of current health (was 5%).
Killing Spree has been adjusted:
Moved to capstone location.
Now a finishing move, increasing number of total strikes per combo point (1 strike + 1 per combo point spent).
Damage per strike increased by 33%.
No longer reduces damage taken during effect.
Now causes 100% of damage taken during effect to be delayed, instead taken over 8 seconds.
Haste now affects duration, reducing the time between strikes.


Developers’ note: Subtlety and its talent tree have been in a similar position as Outlaw. The gameplay outcome has been mostly good during Dragonflight so far, but many talents are underused, and rigid pathing with insufficient connections have restricted talent options. We have changed, redesigned, and added new talents alongside improvements to pathing and interconnectedness that will hopefully add up to feeling like there is more gameplay diversity and flexibility in the tree. And while we noted that gameplay outcomes thus far in Dragonflight have been ‘good’, there have been some negative trends we hope to address. To start, Subtlety’s Energy and combo point resource economies have been overflowing, which creates a cascade of issues. Uptime for key cooldowns (predominantly Shadow Dance) has also been higher than expected, forcing overall damage tuning to result in a relatively flat damage profile, especially for a spec that is often known for having moments of increased intensity and burst within those frequent cooldown windows. So, in addition to the more general improvements and additions for talents, there are some changes that affect Subtlety’s Energy and combo point flow that will reduce the floor of their steady downtime rate, and increase the relative value of effects that temporarily offer more resources. It will require tuning and iteration to get to the amounts of total resource generation and damage output in a good state, so any gameplay feedback you would like to share on these topics is welcome. Let us know!
Many changes have been made to Subtlety talent positions and connections.
Shadowstep and Black Powder are now baseline abilities.
Backstab Energy cost increased to 40 (was 35).
Shadowstrike Energy cost increased to 45 (was 40) and damage increased by 16%.
Shadow Techniques has been adjusted:
No longer grants a combo point immediately when its effect is triggered.
Now stores combo points with a stacking buff, up to double your max combo points.
Abilities that generate combo points can expend any stored combo points to generate extra, up to your max combo points.
Energy generation reduced to 3 (was 4).
Find Weakness has been adjusted:
Moved from Class talent tree to Subtlety.
Now a 1-point talent.
Now causes attacks to bypass 30% of armor (was 15/30%).
Shadow Blades has been adjusted:
Now causes all attacks (was combo point generating abilities) to deal 20% additional damage as Shadow (was 50%).
Now causes abilities that generate combo points to generate full combo points (was 1 additional).
New Talent: Ephemeral Bond (Passive) – Increases healing received by 12%.
New Talent: Shadowcraft (Passive) – While Symbols of Death is active, your Shadow Techniques triggers after 1 fewer attack, stores 1 additional combo point, and finishing moves can also expend stored combo points.
New Talent: Goremaw’s – Lashes out at the target, inflicting Shadow damage and causing your next 3 finishing moves to cost no Energy. Awards 3 combo points. Costs 25 Energy. 1 minute cooldown.
New Talent: Stunning Secret (Passive) – Kidney Shot has 100% increased cooldown and Energy cost, and now creates shadow clones to stun all other nearby enemies.
New Talent: Warning Signs (Passive) – Symbols of Death increases your Haste by 6%.
Shrouded in Darkness now causes Shroud of Concealment to persist after leaving its area, in addition to its previous effect.
Eviscerate damage increased by 10%.
Gloomblade Energy cost increased to 40 (was 35).
Planned Execution is now a 1-point talent and increases critical strike chance by 6% (was 5/10%).
Improved Shadow Dance is now a 1-point talent and increases Shadow Dance duration by 2 seconds (was 1/2 seconds).
Shadowed Finishers is now a 1-point talent and its effect causes 25% additional damage as Shadow (was 20/40%).
Shadow Focus now reduces Energy costs by 10% (was 15%).
Deepening Shadows now reduces Shadow Dance cooldown by 0.5 seconds per combo point spent (was 0.7).
Perforated Veins has been redesigned as a 1-point talent – After striking 5 times with Gloomblade, your next attack that generates combo points deals 50% increased damage.
Lingering Shadows is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.
Deeper Daggers is now a 1-point talent. Per point value has not changed.
Finality buffs no longer have a duration.
The Rotten has been adjusted:
Bonus to damage and critical strike now applies to any attack that generates combo points (was Backstab, Gloomblade, and Shadowstrike).
Effect no longer generates combo points

Les modifications de l’assa ont l’air cool, à voir l’impacte sur la conso d’Energie qui je trouve est le point noir de la spé à l’heure actuel (en dehors du nombre de bind nécessaire, du dps et de l’aoe désastreuse on se comprend).

Quand au sub, je le joue depuis trop peut de temps pour avoir un avis, juste à surveiller les différent up et nerf avec la refonte des arbres, ça peut vite virer au désastre avec blizzard.

Il y a un talent pour augmenter de 100 l’énergie ! Du coup 200 c’est très large! :grin:

Pour ma part je reste sceptique pour la spé assassinat, les changements apporté au carnage aveugle ne me plaisent pas car non seulement la furtivité est maintenant obligatoire (chose qui n’on pas prévu de changer d’ailleurs) alors qu’on a pas cesser de leur dire que la furtivité était un problème en m+.

En dehors de ça j’ai beaucoup la refonte de l’arbre j’enlèverai quand même la danse de l’ombre de l’arbre de base car pour moi ça n’a rien a faire la, les changements sur exsangue sont plutôt bon même si actuellement ça bouffe beaucoup trop d’énergie et j’aime beaucoup le nouveau talent mort inopiné.

Ce que je conseillerai serait de nous permettre d’avoir la disparition plus souvent ne serait-ce pour le m+ et augmenter le nombre de cible du carnage aveugle de 2.

refonte laissé moi rire ( je prend ici pour mettre la je déplace quelques sorts de droite a gauche c’est pratiquement que de l’augmentation du dps et rien d’autres , j’aurais aimer que le voleur soit complétement effacé de ce que l’ont connais aujourd’hui n’existe plus et avoir une autre conception du rogue , la ils nous colle un patch dps un point c’est tout .
pour finir dans un mois ou même une semaine , ils vont commencer a dire le rogue fait trop de Degas nous devons faire des ajustements pour satisfaire la communauté , nous ce que l’ont voulais c’est que le rogue soit utile pas inutile ( utilise la furtivité de groupe dans un donjon et les mecs en non rien a faire de ta furtivité de masse voila un sort qui ne sert a rien ou alors taper dans le 26 / 27 m+ et encore, franchement déçu .

dsl mais je m’attendais a autres choses :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Bon ben … comme dirait Karadoc « c’est d’la mer… »

C’est encore plus flagrant quand on regarde les changements directement avec les arbres de talent …

C’est vraiment déplacer des talents pour faire croire qu’on a bossé et rajouter trois mer… en plus. Et quand je vois les modif sur l’assa je me dis qu’en plus de ne rien piger à ce qu’ils font, ils ne jouent même pas à leur propre jeu (ou du moins ils ne jouent pas rogue). On va se retrouver avec 300 énergie, mais une regen toujours aussi dégueu (voire pire suivant les talents à prendre).
Sans compter les aberrations qui vont se faire nerf jour J : Sudden demise, c’est bien sympa mais imaginez en pvp, tu combines ça avec serrated bone spike … ça va chouiner sévère (et ça sera justifié).
Bref, c’est d’la me…

Slt all, bon alors j’ai été test l’Assa 10.2; mes premiers retour et que bon le gp reste le même, même le choix des talents ne change pas de ouf par rapport à maintenant ci se n’ai que nous jouerons pas la PoisonBomb et que nous iront chercher la Plaie-des-rois (boost aux hormones avec le talent double poisons), ils ont détruit le talent [Indiscriminate carnage] qui imo devient useless mais y’a quand même du mieux pour notre gp AoE/Cleave, la regen nrj toujours aussi dégueux malgré le fait que nous pourrons avoir 300nrj.

Tu pense que ça va encore changer ou pas trop de chance ?
En mm+ ça va être viable ?
Perdre la bombe de poison c’est pas envisageable c’est beaucoup trop puissant en vrais…

J’ai cru comprendre dans le dernier post bleu qu’ils comptait retravaillé carnage aveugle mais qu’ils aimaient bien le fait qu’on l’utilise à l’open.

Je pense que si ils augmentent le nombre de cibles de 2 la spé pourrait devenir viable en m+, mais y a encore beaucoup de modification à faire à droite à gauche, moi je supprimerais la marque létale pour y mettre l’exangue avec 1min de cd sans consommation d’énergie, ça fait un burst multi et mono toutes les minute et en supplément on peut pas le dispell en pvp

Alors en mono elle est pick apparemment pour le build opti, mais en MM+ en faite ont ne peut pas aller la chercher car il faudrai s’passer de [Recette des Zoldyck] ou de [Odeur du sang] et du talent qui suis ou de [Brigand audacieux] et [Lames trempées de Dragon].

Normalement oui.

Oui j’pense nous seront viable en MM+, mais reste à voir les changement à venir.
Le problème avec [Indiscriminate carnage] et [Garrot amélioré] ces qu’ils nécessitent le Camouflage et sa en M+ ces chose compliqué d’autant quand tu vois que Outlaw et Sub (spec Camouflage de base) n’en n’ont pas spécialement besoin.

Du même avis, j’suis pour que Exsangue soit notre cd de burst.
En PvP Deathmark est à chier clairement.

Atm les builds opti sont cela :

  • ST :

Je comprend pas en quoi marque létal peut etre utile en multi, le tooltip c’est " sur LA cible " pas " toute les cibles" ou alors j’ai rien compris au sort mdr

Ah mais non ces bien ça, d’ailleurs ont s’en plaignait même avant que ce soit Deathmark donc Vendetta.

Je n’ai pas dit que marque létale est utile en multi, j’ai dit que Exsangue est utile en multi

Je connais pas assez la spé muti donc j’ai pas grand chose à dire dessus mais la spé sub est vraiment de pire en pire…
Genre le nouveau cd Shadow blade… 2 minutes de cd de base qui sera réduit avec Vanish et qui permet de faire builder > finisher > builder > finisher, etc… Pendant 20 secondes et avec 20% de dégâts d’ombre en plus…

Même sur le poste de Baroux avant DF quand j’avais proposé d’ajouter dans l’arbre de talent l’effet des dagues légendaires, c’était moins broken que ça…

Et yay ! Goremaw’s B*te (vraiment ? la censure de Blizz…) est de retour, le spell pété qui te permettait d’overcap ton énergie toute les minutes est de retour !
Quoi que maintenant avec 200 d’énergie, ça devrait aller…

Mais sinon vous vous attendiez vraiment à un rework ? C’était évident qu’ils allaient juste bouger des trucs et ne pas changer le gameplay en fait.

Exang atm fait saigner la cible actuel, pas les cibles, je vois pas l’utilité actuellement de le jouer en mm+

Alors là ça reste à voir j’ai été surpris avec l’Assa et les 300nrj…

Tu parle de l’Exsangue 10.2 ? Si c’est le cas il fonctionne en multi. :slight_smile:
Voici les changement actuellement prévu pour le Rogue pour la 10.2.

J avoue que le cycle easy mode de légion en Assa me manque :joy: ( pour ça que suis passé War Fury faut pas de cerveau :joy: )

Mais j avoue atm en raid ça va ( sans exsangue)

  • Bon faut passer du temps à trouver des binds et apprendre le gameplay
  • Le m+ c est le même principe depuis quelques extensions faut dot plusieurs cible mais on as un petit cd pour nous aider.
    Pour faire de la grosse clé au dessus de 20 pas le choix comme toutes les autres classe faut jouer la spé méta.

Mais avec la 10.2 perso je vois plus d avantages qu au début de DF ou qu au patch actuel.

J ai hâte de tester avec le 4p et certains trinket.

Mais tellement j’ai en parallèle un WarFury et le gp est tellement plaisant (certes pas besoin de cerveau :joy: ), très dynamiques et 0 prise de tête. :slight_smile:

J’suis assez d’accord avec ça :

  • en parlant du petit cd (Carnage aveugle j’suppose) justement atm il est trop long il le faudrai à 20s; mais malheureusement imo ils l’ont détruit à la 10.2.
  • l’Assa à toujours était problématique en M+ car dépend du « camouflage » et malheureusement cela ne change pas pour la 10.2
  • Ah, est au passage ils nous ont rajouter Estropier dans le cycle Aoe/Cleave

Wait&See comme ont dit. :slight_smile: