I disagree with Diablo 2 fans

General Discussion
86

I don’t know where he got the figures or how valid they are… there could be 25K bots on D2 for all I know… to sell the items they get for cash through other sites… I’m not going to argue with this, but I don’t consider it reliable. Numbers are easy to manipulate and distort… there have been cases where you can buy followers on twitter to boost popularity for instance.

Also there are a lot of old games that are getting remastered or remade at the request of fans… I think a game having fans for 20 or so years is becoming more common, because a lot of great games were released or series started about 20 years ago, with 1998 being considered one of the best years for gaming.

your pretty much accurate with regards to gear grind. A few corrections are:

bounties: mats can be used to reforge legendaries… sometimes faster than looking for another drop.
Ubers: the only way to get the hellforge amulet… it’s a pretty decent legendary amulet
Set dungeons/Challenge dungeons: no real loot drop, but requires different gameplay. These provide challenges outside of gear grinding and personally one of my favorites part of the game… you cannot over-level and equip the best gear to walk through these, you need to know how to use the items you have.
Conquests: These are separate ladders to GR’s and can involve difficult tasks to do. S19 has complete act 1-5 in an hour and get a gold streak of 50,000,000… important for seasons, but represent an alternative to GR’s.

The season set is given before conquests are required for seasons.

Unfortunately I don’t see gear grind as an endgame goal… it’s a means to an end, if I can complete my goals with lesser gear, that’s okay. As such D2 offers me very little… and since I can only kill monsters in the same way I’ve done since nightmare… I have even less motivation to play the game.
One thing I often find myself doing in D3 is cubing all the legendaries I find… for no other reason than to have them in the cube. In D1 I would play the single player multiple times just to increase the levels of my spells to max. At the moment, I fully intend to play D4 and after the story, I’ll do everything in my power to max every skill available.

The reason I rate the diablo games D1>D3>D2 is because D1 is the only game where every character can utilize every spell in the game… so any challenge can be met by the player, regardless of what it is. D3 has lots of skills… but doesn’t balance them out for use, or does it require using a diverse set of skills to deal with challenges. D2 shows you this big list of skills… then backhands you until you pick a few to play with and focus on, oh then laughs at you on hell cuz whatever choice you made becomes worthless. Where D1 encourages player interaction, D3 allows for it and D2 basically tells you to use a guide and play in these ways.

Similar to how you put it:
Don’t get me started on the Restrictive Skill Tree. This ones a game breaker.

Diablo 1 got closest to this… the others fail on difficulty and challenge. Also… both D2 and D3 are a bit to heroic for my liking. In D1 you basically fail to save anyone or anything and rather than trying to destroy or hide the stone, you allow diablo to possess you, ensuring the characters own destruction as well.

Darksouls is a wonderful game that requires the players to understand attack timing and how to dodge… the only reason I can see not to play it is if you dislike intense action. I wouldn’t mind some of the philosophies of Darksouls from being brought into Diablo… it lacks immunities, but reminds you that it can and will kick your ass if you don’t pay attention.

this tells me that if i were to reduce exp gain and magic find by 90-95% you’d be happy… even if you could play it half asleep… by spam casting the same spell… forever.
that sounds dull… very dull

I would want D4 to be dark… really dark where you might work alongside a demon in order to protect those you care for, where choices are not good or bad, but bad or really bad. It should have a wide range of skills that I can learn and utilise, then force me to utilise them in order to beat bosses or other difficult monsters. Also the skills should be able to synergise (not like D2 where they just boost damage, but react to secondary effects like bleed/chill/frozen) in order to make the whole more than the sum of it’s parts. Powerful items should be hunted rather than farmed. I mean you should need to find where the item can drop and go there to get it, instead of just killing random mobs until RNG kicks in and drops the item.*

I want D4 to surpass all of it’s predecessors. To finally become a game where, I’m an average human fighting demons who can kill the average person, but I’m not winning because I have more levels or better equipment, but because I know how to kill them and do so with brutal ruthless efficiency. Monsters should have weaknesses and blind spots where even a weak attack can cause massive damage, but other monsters can work with them to prevent you from attacking the weak spots. Knowledge and skill should surpass any level bonus or magic item.

  • D2 is similar with the item drop lists, however I’m also think exclusivity. lets say soj could only drop in cave level 2, then it should also be the only drop in cave level 2… other items should be found exclusively in other areas. These location should be told in game and reference the lore surrounding them. As D4 is the largest game… it might be able to pull this off.
3 Likes
87

I didn’t imply he were a permanent genius. You might have some flickers then either get repetitive or not be able to do stuff to the same level or above.

I don’t think any of current ActiBlizz games are too much different in policies, especially StarCraft II which comes with loads of microtransactions, not only on the aesthetic level, of course not pay to win but it’s content loss without paying for it.

Yeah, it’s a dungeon crawler. Of course that doesn’t excuse decision making absence and whatnot but still, a game could have a great story being linear. And Diablo and especially II have. Diablo III is mostly a DI-II rehash, or should I write retcon, in that regard which DIV will be too, possibly even more as there will possibly be even more old characters coming back.

I generally would like to play games that aren’t either copies of each other or too heavily influenced by others. I’m guilty though, I played PoE but won’t play it more than once. Will possibly also play the second too, mostly because I’m doing it with friends.

Sorry matey. But I play the games and the only stuff I read or consider canon are the game manuals. It’s just bonkers to read all that inconsistent stuff only to be able to understand anything.
And, angels having both genders is like the addition of protoss women. They killed any sort of originality, alien or non-humanity vibe with it.

Good for you.
Also, please don’t multipost. You can quote everything in one comment box.

They still have bodies even in Hell. They are not just spirits otherwise they’d be trapped in stuff like soulstones easily. If they only needed hosts to get to Sanctuary it wouldn’t make sense for them to also need that to get to the High Heavens necessarily because angels don’t need to “materialize” wherever they go, be it Hell or Sanctuary.

That’s wrong. The Eternal Conflict was the reason why they made Sanctuary in the first place, to escape it and possibly find a way to stop it with a nephalem army. It wasn’t a mistake. It was bound to happen because there wasn’t only Lilith and Inarius there. They both had followers and possibly traitors and whatnot.

Because learning every enemy move like in the old arcade games makes for a better game.
The discussion is not necessarily about difficulty. It’s about game design in general.

1 Like
88

You are free to believe whatever you want mate.
Also if I want to multi-post then that’s my problem not yours and if it becomes your problem then you are free to ignore them or grow up.

90

And D3 has the cow level too :slight_smile:

91

Because keeping things orderly is wrong in 2019.
I like your defensiveness. You should try it in court sometime.

92

I’m keeping it in order in my own way and that is not of your concern.
Understand that people are all different so please grow up and learn that.

1 Like
93

To be fair D2 had extensive pvp 8 player which was GREAT FUN and it also had open Bnet which was also GREAT FUN, anyone remember making a great doppler and going real fast ^^

D2 endgame was pretty boring but the above 2 more than made up for that

94

Biggest problem I had with this was people would edit their character save files and give themselves millions of life… or items that absorbed everything and 127 skill points (or something)…

Once I joined a game with a lv 99 sorc. a paladin went instantly hostile and as soon as I left town to play, he killed me stating level 99’s are hacked, but he doesn’t hack that high… never been fond of pvp since.

I’m sure other people enjoyed it… but the cheating was a bit out of control for me to consider it enjoyable.

3 Likes
95

hero editor, i used it extensively myself, open bnet was the battle of edited characters, it was easy to make a decent character but very difficult to make a great one, a lot of testing and a lot of fun. I would like to see an element of that return to Diablo, not the editing bit but the difficulty to master bit, not just slap a few items on and off you go type of gameplay

thats why i never read guides for games, totally ruins it for me, i just end up saying, oh yeah, jeez i should have thought of that myself etc etc, horrible

1 Like
96

Being mean and disrespectful doesn’t give you permission to be different and understood.

1 Like
97

Right back at ya my dude!

1 Like
98

I have to disagree with you. I’m D2 bigfan, but I am also D3 fan. When I started to play D3 I found out that D3 campaign is much easier than D2 campaign.

I level up my character to level 70 and after that I did not know what to do next. I didn’t know about canai’s cube, there is absolutely NO DAMN informations why you should get canai’s cube. There are no informations about builds at all.

If you think, that you collect 6 piece set and then you think you will be OP, then you are wrong. 6 piece set is only the beginning, you need exact legendary items for canai’s cube and other 2 sets or legendaries to work with your 6 piece set.

I remember exactly that I wasn’t aware of D3 build websites at all. I simply played the game. I tried to do exact same thing like I did in D2. I experiment and try to upgrade my gear. I love to experiment to upgrade my gear and become stronger this way. I slowly increased difficulties up to Torment 7. I supposed I’m strong, but when my friend join my game I was shocked how strong his character is! It was before patch 2.6.0, so sets dealt much less damage, but still his damage was WAY HIGHER than mine!

Blizzard simply FORCES you to play exact builds. Exact builds REQUIRE exact spells and runes! You can’t use spells you like. If you do this , you will do no damage, you will become obsolete and useless. If you want to create your build, you can’t play with groups, because everyone will flame you and kick you from the party! It’s a fact. If you want to play groups, you have to become average John Doe Diablo 3 player who blindly follows Icy-veins Diablo 3 build guides. Why? Because Blizzard said so! Because Blizzard FORCED YOU TO DO IT! You can’t create your own builds at all, because it will be weak. Your own “builds” are able to push only GR 30! That’s horrible experience.

So in the end, D3 is only for people, who blindly follows no life players from Twitch or Youtube, or websites like icy-veins, diablofans etc. If you do not follow these guides, you are absolutely OBSOLETE. There is no creativity in D3. Only few builds are vilable, it means that almost EVERYONE has the same build - same gear. There is only 1 difference between our “gear” and it is quality of our gear. But those pieces are the same, because you HAVE TO use them to be strong.

And then you HAVE TO focus on patch notes. You simply have to, there is no escape. Because blizzard buffs some sets. So other sets will become obsolete again. So you will start grinding for exact same build. When you open your game and other players come into your game, you will see that they use SAME BUILDS! There is absolutely no creativity at all.

That’s what I loved about D2. Of course there are many OP builds, but you are also able to create your own “build” that is useable at Hell difficulty. D3 is not a bad game, I played more than 400 hours. D3 is simplified version of D2. Something could be improved but I really missed creativity which D2 offered to players.

There is almost no difference in boss fights. When you die at boss fight, you have to fight it again from the start, but in the end, you have UNLIMITED amount of attemps. So in the end it’s the same experience as Diablo 2.

99

Hi,
First thanks for your response, my criticism may sound harsh, but this is what I believe.
I feel you are a player who when playing D3 wanted to be near the top of the leader boards or be on an equal level when playing with veterans or others who stream. You mention getting to level 70 easily, but unfortunately in seasons getting to level 70 can take less than 2 hours and is seen as a tiny stepping stone. D3 has ended up a game where is traditional gameplay has been removed and only end game exists.

On the game start menu, it does tell you about adventure mode when you first play, and it uses the same screen as difficulty settings, thus allowing easily discovery of the mode. Within any town in adventure mode, Zoltan Kulle has a quest marker above his head signifying something for you to do. The “why” to do the quest I feel is irrelevant, the game never demands a reason as to why you are doing anything (it is an ARPG, if a quest exists, it would be assumed you’ll do it anyway.) As such I would assume someone exploring the game would end up with Kanai’s cube eventually. The slots on Kanai’s cube also tell you about the legendary affixes that are available for your character and should you look at these you can build up an idea about how to build you character regarding powerful skills and what items to use.

I agree with this, and I see it as a positive. After all if you were one of the strongest players by completing a 6 piece set and could do everything easily the game would seem pretty shallow. Instead it provides you with more items that can synergise with the set and increase the power of your build even more so, providing greater heights for the player to reach.

Doesn’t this just indicate that you could do better than what you thought you were doing? It would be even more interesting if your friend was using the same items as you, since it would show how the item affixes provide opportunities for greater damage. These of course can all be found (with upper and lower limits) on the fortune teller.

I disagree with this statement. The person who forces you to play exact builds is you. Sounds strange, but D3 can be played on normal difficulty and the campaign cleared without much issue. This is the game and story that Blizzard wants you to play. Afterwards, everything you do is for your own benefit and the people you are competing against are all the other players.

Blizzard creates the items, affixes, skills and challenge arenas.
The challenges are only focused on how efficiently you deal damage and as such are apathetic to how you deal damage.

The players are the ones who research the items (Kanai’s cube), affixes (fortune teller) and skills (skill tree) in order to maximise the damage. The players create the builds that have the highest damage potential, and other players will expect you to use them because they have the highest damage potential. Blizzard does not say that you have to clear GR 30, or that if you cannot clear a GR 30 you are weak.

D3 is a competitive game with a ladder, and unless you understand how to maximise every aspect of your character and play to the best of your ability, other players could very easily look down on you. This is generally true about any competitive game, whether it be; chess, football, league of legends, etc…

Do I feel that blizzard could help balance some of the sets to allow for more builds near the top of leader boards? yes!
If a new build came out that surpasses the previous “best”, would other players expect you to use it? yes…

D3 is an old game. The creativity has already been done and now all that remains is checking for modifications to the items, readjusting the numbers and looking at the results to see if any builds become number one. In a competitive game, the only build worth looking at is the number one build, all others are more about player preference, but those players are not interested in competitive play.

I highly disagree!!!
In D2 if I attacked a boss and did 1/8th of their health as damage, then I could repeat exactly what I did 8 times and win… dying meant nothing except some repair costs and town portal scrolls.
In D3 if I attacked a boss and did 1/8th of their health as damage, I would need to change. The boss always has full health at the beginning of the battle and so I need to kill it in a single battle. This means that if a previous attempt did not work, I would need to change items, skills or my own gameplay, in order to succeed in my next attempt.

I believe the issue is about the difference between an finite endgame and an infinite endgame. In D2 you have a set challenge, it doesn’t get any more difficult and so anything that could beat it would be considered acceptable. If I were to compare the D2 challenge to D3 it might be GR45 (a conquest is to complete it without set items), where we could use a large variety of item and skill combinations to beat it. The builds that are on top are doing GR140+, the difference is like taking the OP builds in D2 and comparing them to find out which is more OP… and then seeing if you could make that build stronger until you have the very best and most OP build possible… oh and then adding a competitive element so that everyone says, if your not using this build then your not playing correctly.

TL;DR: D3 is a very competitive game and expects players to be competitive in order to push what the player can do. D2 isn’t a competitive game and allows for subpar builds, since they can complete the hardest challenge set.
If you are not keen on the competitive nature of D3, then set lower goals, or see how far you can go by using a preferred skill set instead of pushing for greater Grifts.

3 Likes
100

I am hecking tired of Diablo 3 fanboys who trying to ruin Diablo. Do you not understand the Diablo concept? Many of us actually played Diablo 1 and 2, we enjoyed that game very much. The new generation of people don’t understand the game concept of nothing.

So you don’t like dark games, then don’t play it. Go play World of Warcraft, that’s a colorful and bright game that fits you. Diablo 3 is not even dark enough, it’s too much color and you could really need to ride a unicorn. Not everyone agree with you, so you can’t actually talk for everyone.

Diablo is the devil and the devil lives in hell. Hell is not bright. Hell is dark. What did I miss?

101

Technically, Hell is very bright as it is the Lake of Fire.

5 Likes
102

Then who stop you ? Just go out and play Diablo 2. Let us play a game that is actually a new game and its to the standard of 2020 or 2021.

3 Likes
103

Well said, LordMarauder! :clap:

Like Nortroll, I also played Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, but that does not mean that’s all I want.

I want the story of Diablo IV to continue with new game and story elements to keep me occupied in the same fasion that I moved on from Diablo 2 when I started playing Diablo 3.

3 Likes
104

I play d1,2,3. In my opinion, the major deficiency in d3 is pvp. Pvp not only test your equipment but also your reaction time and skills

In addition, in d3, high paragon = high stats = powerful characters. In D2, how powerful your character is totally dependant on your equipment. So i guess d3 is more newbie friendly.

Obtaining Items/equipment -both need to grind. But i do think d2 is harder especially the low drop rate of runes and some high end equipment. Even the items do drop or you finally gotten the runes required to craft, if you get medicore stats, you need to farm for it again. This is the same in d3,but as all ancient legendary have somewhat similar drop rates, you may have higher chance to obtain desired stats as the items is spawn at higher frequency. I think because of that, enable trading in d3 will make d3 too easy and also the reason why there is trading in d2.

I like the graphics in d3 though and understandably it is due to d3 being a newer game as compare to d2.

I guess both d2 and d3 catered to different type of players. D2 is for more hardcore players due to the slightly higher difficulty. And the community is much more close together as you can even chill for whole day in a pvp room to chit chat.

D3 caters to wider audience due to the difficulties of the game and graphics. Players in D3 are usually group for beating high grift, bounty ( least player interaction). So usually there is not much chilling around and each and everyone go in with an objective. So i guess the community is not as close.

1 Like
105

hmm… decent comments. Have to agree that the lack of PVP in D3 is an issue for some, although PVP in D3 wouldn’t work in the given environment and so shows good sense from developers.

Funnily enough a lot of D2 players complain about D3 being equipment dependant, whereas D2 has their 110 skill points and 505 stat points to create a character with.

D3 had low drop rates during the RMAH (trading station), however, as it was so unpopular they had to remove RMAH and thus remove trading (the game wasn’t designed for it, so it’s probably impossible to implement a similar feature). This lead to increased drop rates, as we cannot realistically gain items any other way.
Also in D2 if you press enter/return key and type “/players8” you can play the game with increased drop rates as if your on an 8 player game. The items do truly rain then (more so than D3 IMO), although most are junk.

I’ve never really played a game to be sociable… I don’t see the appeal of close communities…

106

All the players in my D3 friend list that I have spoken to are old D2 players. That is strange, why do they not play D2 instead if that is universally a better game.

From the logic I see somebody here has, if you ever played D1&2 you would never spend time on D3. That is false.

2 Likes