But if the MMR system is hidden, and you don’t know your score, how can you know its “flawed”.
It’s based on what I’ve seen and base logic.
The amount of people I’ve seen crying about getting bogged down by bad players or the system working against them, so they get a new account… level it up and surprise surprise, still in gold.
I tried the same as an experiment… this account was that. It placed about 60sr away from my old account. So has the MMR system does a reasonable job working out my skill… probably.
That experiment had me at about 1800/1900. So I knew then I just had to work on getting better atvthe heroes i played. And shockingly I’m up about 600sr.
Right back at ya, how can you know its “surprisingly accurate”?
Based on what I see, it’s clearly flawed when I get teammates that can’t do what they are supposed to do. And that logic is unquestionable.
Because bad players can pull them down regardless. Doesn’t matter what their mmr is, if it’s froma fresh account or not, in other words, it’s very flawed, and seems to be basing your performance in your mmr as part of the team you are in, not purely on individuals.
You need way more data than this to actually know if it’s a good test to measure this or not.
Because 2 separate accounts played by the same person end up at the same rank. Would suggest that the data is similar.
I’ve lost count of the people the tried it. I keep encounting one exceptional toxic player who keeps buying account (I think I’ve bumped into him on at least 5 accounts), all the same rank.
“can’t do what they are supposed to do” That made me laugh. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say.
I might need more data, this is true. But the same goes for you claiming it is flawed. You have zero evidence of that except “my team mates are bad”…
People have bad games, doesn’t make them bad players.
That’s why the MMR score is based of a very large amount of games, so an out of character
performace doesn’t change things dramatically.
But, if you can give hard evidence there is an issue, please do provide. The burden of proof is always on the accuser. If you got the hard evidence to prove it is “flawed” I will change my mind.
(There was those GM players that deranked accounts super fast to gold. But their MMR didn’t change so they still got GM matches, kind of shows the system works)
C8P876 - solo, open que. a mode I hate. I played Rein (because I’m not a Rein main)… who knows if my team mates were good or bad. I just focused on doing what I do on Rein to the best of my ability.
But I have proven my point to my friend. Open que doesn’t work as a ranked mode. It is fun to mess about with in placements. But this is no a good mode.
We certainly agree on that part. I don’t even care to do placements in this mode, as it is absolutely terrible. Role-queue is the only ranked worthy of playing when it comes to normal comp.
Sure, doing lucioball ranked etc is more for fun, and to get those extra gold weapon creds, but that’s about it.
As one does. All you can do in ranked is play to the best of your abilities, but being the team-heavy game this is, you can do a phenomenal job as rein, but if your team doesn’t keep up their part, it’s still going to fail.
Which is why it’s fine to complain to them about the way they play in ranked. If they can’t comply to that, or accept and adapt to the criticism, then they should go practice more first in a mode where they won’t contribute to other players losing their ratings, like QP or Arcade.
That does fall under abusive chat as it is disruptive and downright rude tbf.
Unless you are playing 100% perfect (you won’t be), then you have no right berate others for mistakes. It isn’t going to make them suddenly start playing well.
My last open que placement was just 3 dps players complaining at each other and comparing the size of their medals, and something about others being rubbish… the BS helps no one.
So I just said nothing and let them get on with it, because they are the ones that are going to cost themselves because they are tilted.
Oh, BTW, shockingly placed open que exactly where I should be. Almost like the MMR system knows where to put me.
Telling them they are making bad decisions isn’t flaming. Flaming would be to berate them and telling them they should uninstall the game and stuff to that effect. That’s not what I said I’m doing. I’m pointing out their lack of ability to carry their own weight in a team, and in what sense. Like if we have 2 hitscan dps who can’t kill a pharah without a mercy, that’s bad. If the pharah has free reign over the skies without being contested at all, it will be a one-sided slaughterfest. To tell them to focus their efforts in order to suppress her is not flaming in any way. Criticism is not a bad thing to give to players, although, some players can’t handle criticism as it hurts their pride. But I don’t give a rats about anyone’s pride. It’s a useless attribute, and if they can’t accept that, they are thoroughly weak-willed.
Nobody at all in this entire world can play at 100% perfection. If they did, they would never miss a single shot, never die, and never fail to kill whatever they point their crosshair towards. It’s not realistic in the least bit of sense, but criticizing someone for not doing what they are supposed to do is still something you can do without breaking any rules. If I were to berate them, I would be a toxic player, and would deserve to get reported, as is the rules. But pointing out someones lack of gamesense isn’t toxic in and of itself. It depends how you deliver the message. And I would simply be pointing out one of their shortcomings, so they could learn from that(if they are willing to improve themselves, and want to get better for future matches).
Still, that’s the open queue, and the lack of meta and structure in those games are abysmal in comparison to Role-queue.
Well, could be a fluke, just as much as it could be working as intended. Depends on exactly how the MMR stat is calculated, which we don’t really know. I’m assuming it has more to do with how many deaths you have, how many kills you have, accuracy with weapons and abilities, objective time % etc. But many of these stats can indirectly be affected by having a bad team, and not purely based on how well you yourself are doing. Say for example in a game where you have a terrible rein, and he more or less never blocks damage with his shield, leading to more deaths for his teammates. If the amount of deaths plays a role in the MMR rating, then he is technically responsible for reducing your MMR, as you will die more often in that match than if you had a better one. And then, if your mmr sinks because of this, you risk getting a worse one in the next game, and next and next. And it creates a potential snowballing effect. Ofcourse, we don’t know exactly how the mmr is calculated, or how far back it goes, or if it takes into concideration your technical skill and prowess from ALL modes, or just simply from ranked games alone. There is wayyyy too many unknowns to assume anything with that little amount of data.
Yeah, telling them they’ve made bad decisions. However nicely you’ve tried to say it is still uncalled for and unnecessary behavior.
I’m sure they are well aware they’ve not done the right thing. So they don’t need someone captain hindsight telling them after the fact.
It is why so many people get caught for abusive chat. They don’t know when to just keep it zipped in game.
If you have a Rein that you believe you not be efficiently shielding… you dying from the incoming damage is still your fault. Why you going LoS if you know your rein isn’t doing what you’d like him to do. 2 sides to every coin. If you keep taking damage and keep dying, yeah maybe your tanks could adjust… but so could you. You can only control what you do, so change how you play if your rein isn’t what you’d like it to be.
How so? Most of the time when I tell them, it’s because they repeat the same process over and over, and are not learning from it at all. One thing would be to mess up once, and then not doing it again that match, but when they keep going at it, then ofcourse I’m going to tell them. If they then keep doing it over and over, I would report THEM for gameplay sabotage instead. It’s more meant as a warning, and a pointer to what they are doing wrong, so they can learn from it.
If it’s a one time thing, then sure. And if something happens only once, I wouldn’t say anything either. But on repeating the same mistake over and over, there is no excuses.
Flaming is abusive. What I’m doing is not flaming, in any way, shape or form. It’s an observation where I point out their mistakes as they are repeatedly being done, and suggesting they stop doing so.
Not if he dies or isn’t shielding at the correct times. There is a time for shielding, and a time for swinging hammer. Pointing out when that is, is not toxic or bad in any way. It’s a tip, as I know fairly well with all my experience when to do, and when to not. And if you think this is my fault in any way, then I don’t think you’ve played much against higher ranked players. As they will capitalize on a golden situation like this, and push hard once the shield is gone, as they have more or less nothing to lose at that point as long as they are being cautious themselves. They could force a trickling-effect upon my team, or force us to wait longer for all to spawn before we can go together again. All I could do in that situation is trying to fall back and regroup with my team without dying first. Easier said than done, as they naturally wouldn’t allow me to simply do this. They will widen the gap as much as they can, and like they should. If I simply hide in the back constantly because Rein is bad, then how are we supposed to work on the objective at all? Wait for stars to align and hope they make a fatal mistake before the timer runs out? Sorry, I’m not going to make the game into one of chance, when it could be dictated by skill. That would be a preposterous suggestion.
Flaming is pointless, yes, but pointing out someone’s inadequacies and suggesting what they can do if they want to fix it, is not flaming.
I didn’t claim to be in charge, I’m simply pointing out what they are doing wrong as long as they keep doing something that will lead to our defeat. And if they are doing that, then they simply ARE wrong, not because they don’t listen to what I say, but because they do something stupid that will lead to a loss. If something leads to a loss, then it is by all means “wrong” to do so. Simple as that.
Not so many as you might think. If people spend their ults on a fight that is already won, for example, that would be an example of something they do “wrong”. Sure, they CAN use their ults on 2 people after we already killed 4, but why? There is no need, and we could have used that ult in the next fight instead. Just because they feel like doing something like that, doesn’t make it right. They essentially wasted the ult, so then, it’s wrong. There are many examples of wrong things to do in this game. Pointing them out doesn’t mean I’m in charge, or that I’m toxic, or tilted, or whatever. It’s more constructive criticism than anything else, which really, really isn’t a bad thing to do. Regardless of how much it hurts their feeble pride.
Sitting back, and accepting that they play like that and drag ME into their poor decision-making, ruining MY mmr and sr, and wasting MY time, without me being able to give them constructive feedback in a last attempt to try to salvage whatever I can of these would be moronic. I’m not interested in allowing someone to waste my time by doing stupid things in ranked. If they want to play like that, there is a lot of other modes they can go do that in, where there are 0 consequences for their actions.
Keeping my comments to myself in this scenario would just serve to bottle up the annoyance and anger to a degree where my fuse would simply get shorter and shorter the more I play. The best solution is to tell them, in order to MAYBE salvage the seemingly lost game. And perhaps they will listen to it, and learn from it for future games.
Fine. But what’s to day your suggestion is better, or right.
Im sure you’re not giving them a load of grief. But it is a rocky path to walk down. People don’t want to hear it.
There are better ways. Instead of “hey that was rubbish don’t do that again”… try “how about this time we try this…”
If it works maybe they learn something new. If not no skin lost, team doesn’t think your being the toxic player moaning and win or lose, you just go again.
Maybe that additional ult usage isn’t needed. But what’s the point in flaming for it. Not going to get it back. Just call it making sure the fight was won and move on.
It can’t ruin your MMR as that’s based on what you do. Your SR comes and goes, not worth worry about. Otherwise you end up angry and complaining about everyone else. Neither sre helpful to your cause.
Why be toxic. Keep the trolling down.
This is a civil conversation about not tilting and flaming.
I tested your claim of “bad team mates” earlier. Did my open que places. Not in voice, one tricking rein (Apart from one game where someone beat me to it, so I went lucio as we needed the speed).
So no comms, listening to music, just playing as aggressively as I felt was required.
Went 8-2 overall. One of the defeats I was pure garbo. Had to apologise for that one.
I’m having a discussion talking about why i don’t feel there is any need to punch down and flame your team.
I dont know why me staying calm in game seems to upset you so much. I enjoy playing the video game, but if a match doesn’t go well no biggie. Another chance to get it right I’m the next one.
Do you have a point you’d like to add?
Or are you just being tilted and wanting to have a go at someone?
There could be someone else calling it instead, but I’m not going to wait for someone to take charge too late. Better to take the initiative myself if someone else is not going to. And in higher ranks, the game gets a lot more streamlined and orderly. It’s really quite simple:
If enemy team has a free roaming pharah, this is very very bad. We can’t allow her to freely shoot at us from the air, as she will decimate the team, break shields, get people behind the shield, or so on and so forth. It becomes alot more “routine”, in higher ranks. And in this example with the pharah, if we have 2 hitscans, and they can’t get her, maybe they are not focusing her? maybe they have terrible accuracy? I don’t know, but I’m still going to make it very clear that the pharah HAS to die, or we are going to lose, and tell the 2 hitscanners to focus up and get rid of her. If I play say, Mccree, and the pharah doesn’t have a mercy on her, she will be dead as soon as I see her jump up in the air with her shift. She might get away with her life, but atleast now she has to spend time getting healed up or running to safety, and that fight has essentially been “won” for now. If her healers are going to spend their time healing her instead of their front-line and other teammates, that means those players are vulnerable, meaning we have a chance to push them while keeping our advantage, and the enemy has lost theirs. They essentially have a choice, fight us without their pharah who would die if she engages with them(meaning we are 6v5), OR, hope their frontline can handle our push when they are one player down.
Pushing in is also something that usually only happens when there is a clear advantage and openings. Routine. Things like this is what happens in all higher level games, and that’s also why I’m “right” and my suggestion is “better”. It’s simply more effective.
I don’t see why this is a rocky path, to point out what should be done. I’m not giving them any grief, I’m simply pointing out what we should do/taking the lead, because we don’t have time to wait for someone to take the lead too late. If someone beats me to it, then this is perfectly fine, I don’t mind riding shotgun at all. I’m just not willing to risk going in without any communication and leadership. I’ll take the lead if noone else claims it, as we should have one. It really really helps. And it doesn’t really matter to me if they want to hear it or not, if their pride is that feeble, then that’s honestly just a problem for them. They can report me if they feel like it ofcourse, but I can guarantee that I would never ever be affected by the reports, as I’m very calm and collected and not behaving toxic at all. I praise them when they do something great(to raise morale), and I point out flaws in their decisionmaking if they do something that would lead to our defeat(to make them focus up and get back on track).
As an example of something I would say, lets use the pharah example I’ve already been using. A pharah is flying and shooting at our backline, while our rein is slowly trying to back away while still protecting his team. I see Mccree and Ashe on my team is shooting at a rein shield where a Roadhog is sometimes poking through. I tell them something like: “Cree and Ashe, focus this pharah, if we don’t suppress her we will lose all our space.”
At this point, it’s a question of whether the are willing to listen to me or not. But if they just keep shooting at a rein shield and occasionally hits the peeking roadhog, the pharaah will break shield, someone will get hooked and die, pharah is going to focus cree or ashe now, in order to make sure nobody can stop her, and we will slowly fall one by one. If we lose the fight, I will simply say in comms: “okay, so from now on, we need to focus the pharah, guys. If she is free, this will just keep happening”. And once they throw away their pride, and gets focused on “just trying to win”, they will see that my comments are “fair”, and simply point out what we should be doing. I DON’T say stuff like: “jesus christ you guys are trash. Can you not hit a pharah at all? omg, so bad”, as this would just make their pride take over, they would not care if they will get a loss, as they would dislike me strongly, and probably ignore my leadership in spite, and just think: “as long as HE loses, I don’t mind losing”. At this point, the morale is basically shattered on our side. So I refrain from speaking in that way. I keep it short, concise, factual, and simply trying to make sure morale is high, and make sure all players are doing what they should be doing.
Ofcourse, and everyone knows this. I’m simply stating this so they will think twice before they use their next one. If I didn’t, who’s to say they wouldn’t do it again? Could be they didn’t keep an eye on the killfeed, and maybe they will next time now. That’s why you point out things.
How do you know? you know what the calculation is based on? Could be the game is thinking I’m responsible for all my deaths, but if I have extra deaths because I have a lousy tank, who’s to say that the game can differentiate between “deaths because of tank errors” and straight up “deaths”?
Still done in Open queues though. The lack of structure there makes it not a very fit option to run tests. Much better to do so in regular role queue.
Flaming leads to bad morale, and that’s why I’m giving them criticism instead. I’m pointing out their flaws FOR them, in a calm and collected manner, neither talking down to them or punching down. Simply pointing it out, just in case they are doing something they don’t need to do.
I don’t think it does. It’s completely fine to stay calm during the game. In fact, it’s much better to stay calm and collected to make judgement-calls on what to do, and keep focus and landing shots and abilities.
This is where the issue might lie. As you don’t seem to be bothered at all if you win or lose in ranked. This is not a very good thing to do in ranked, as you should be intensely focused, CRAVE victory, and feel like victory is all that matters. Most people in ranked will have this as a goal, and when people just want to play ranked in a “chill way”, this can set them off, as it’s the complete opposite of what the majority of players in ranked wants. They want you to focus and try your absolute best to WIN, not “just have fun”. Additionally, wins is the most fun thing in ranked, as it gives a feeling of accomplishment. Maybe not all care about this, and in my opinion, you are one of those people. The reason why your comments are being taken as they are, is basically because you have a more “laid back” attitude to the ranked games, and hey, there is nothing I can really do to change that. I can explain all day why you shouldn’t, but to make it short, it’s not going to help to tell people in ranked that they should just “chill”, as that is NOT what they see ranked as. Me included. I can’t FORCE you to do anything, but I want you to understand that there is a conflict of interest, and a difference in level of seriousness between players like you, and players like me(and wolfex. He seems like he is of the similar type of player as me. We take it serious). So when a player like you then say stuff like: “Just queue again, no big deal, it’s just a game, no need to get mad” etc etc, this goes against how serious we are actually taking ranked, and wished others would aswell. It just serves to inflame us as it feels like a direct attack on our resolve to do our absolute best to win, and get an accurate reading of where in the ladder we should be. That’s probably also why so many people call you troll, as it is so far off what one should be doing in ranked(in our opinion).
As a closing remark, I honestly don’t think you are a troll anymore, I simply think this is HONESTLY how you are. If you ARE a troll, then you are a very persistent one, I’ll give you that, but I honestly just think you ARE this way, and not trolling.
But let me say this, I don’t think your comments on people crying on the forums is a good thing to do. If someone starts a post like this one, where they are annoyed with leavers, it is meant to give feedback, and see whether other players agree with it or not.
When you say stuff like: “Just don’t care about it. It’s fine.” etc, this will naturally make people angry, as it doesn’t add to the conversation. It makes it seem like you are saying: “You are wrong!”, to them. And then not saying why it’s wrong. Whether something can be done to fix their problem or not is one thing, but the last thing they need is someone to come and say they are wrong, when there is no argument as to WHY they are wrong. If they are, the post would get next to no interest at all, and would quickly disappear into obscurity by itself. If people want to use the forums to “cry” to devs, then so be it. It’s the only tool we have to reach out for them anyways, so it makes sense. Making them feel like they are wrong, with no counter-argument, will make people see you as a troll.
PS.: Jesus christ, you make me write so much man xD I hope you respect me enough to atleast read all of it. Should take a fraction of the time it took me to write all this.
Sadly, and I’m sure this isn’t your intention, it comes across as if you think you are above them.
Just becasue something happens in high level games, doesn’t mean it is even remotely applicable lower down.
And criticising them, flaming them or however you want to spin it to try justify your actions is still the same thing - hindsight and some degree of toxic behavior.
You are not pointing the flaws out for them, you are doing it for yourself, because for some reason you think you are better than them and can talk down to them.
Having a plan, suggestion what to do before the event is all good. That’s good team play. And if it doesn’t work, instead of complaining simple adjust the plan and go again.
But having a go at someone after the event… that is poor, and personally I’d report you if you started having a go at someone for a mistake.
If that player keeps making the same mistake, that is why you have an a avoid slot.
If you spend your time having a go at people you are just going to become more and more tilted. And the chances are you are making just as many mistakes as them anyways.
You never dies because of a “lousy tank”. You will die because of your “lousy positioning” though. As I said if your tank isn’t doing what you want to do, you have to adjust. Take different paths, get map control so you aren’t so reliant on what your tank is doing. Ultimately, if you die a lot that’s a sign you’ve been doing something wrong.
People need to just drop the arrogance when they play. Makes the game so much more fun and peaceful.