Backfilling because someone left when game is already in overtime is not “fine”. That’s 12 minutes I’ll never get back, and then I have to sit an additional 8 after that. It’s not “Fine” by a longshot. It’s not how it SHOULD be. And it should be seen as the problem it is.
Technically no game is lost doesn’t help much when 9/10 games end with defeat in that situation. When that pop off happens is a rare occasion when you get backfiller, because usually they left because they felt their team is not good enough. And while that might be true or not, it’s irrelevant when you know that this rarely happens as a backfiller. It DOES happen, but like I said, it’s a rare occasion. I almost never happens.
I don’t mind if I get steamrolled, or if I am steamrolling. I’t quite simple really, I just want to play qp, and shoot people. Try to win ofc, but it’s not important to me. I just want to control my character and shoot things. Getting last second backfill prevents that from happening, and just serves to waste my time. Hence why it’s a problem. And I should not need to meet a bunch of unnecessary requirements to circumvent that. A solution that would eradicate huge parts of this issue would be logically a much better solution, as it would only affect a specific type of player. Atleast for the majority of times.
Saying it will NEVER change is not something you know either. If enough people make it clear that this is an issue, Blizzard would take it into consideration. It’s better to speak up than hide your head in the sand atleast. Atleast better to TRY to do something instead of just laying down and giving up without even trying at all.
Depends, but I think at the moment timer goes to overtime, as long as nobody touches, It will take about 2-3 seconds before game concludes. But I never timed it with a stopwatch, so it’s just an estimate.
I didn’t count how many games it happened in, I love when we get overtime fights at the end, full of chaos and last ditch efforts to try and win. It’s great. But, when I am in spawn when overtime starts, there is nothing I can do to stall and join this fight, meaning the team I just joined will have to be close enough to touch, or win a 5v6 or 4v6 depending on just how many left in the end. So most of these games end in losses, it just does. There ARE exceptions, but they are substantially rare. Also, when you have about 100hours of gametime in total as you have(according to playoverwatch.com atleast), then your statistical data hardly match up to the data and statistics I’m sitting on. I saw you had like 46 hours or something in QP, while I have 1700+. Trust me, I know my qp. And this problem is not one that has been there all along, atleast not to this extent. Leavers have existed since the beginning, I’m not arguing they will disappear completely, I’m simply suggesting a solution to stop this rampant amount of leavers at end of games as we currently have. It’s VERY easy for me to see that it’s different from what it has been all along.
Joining as a backfill in a game that just started is not an issue at all, I don’t mind that one bit. I get to play in that situation, and if I get rolled or not is irrelevant to me. I just want to play, instead of sitting in the queue because of someone else’s impatience. That’s LITTERALLY my entire problem with the leavers.
If I join a fresh game, have a team, and every 10 seconds, someone leaves, and gets replaced, I don’t have a problem, because I can still shoot things. It’s that simple, honestly. I ONLY have an issue with backfilling the last few seconds of a match, where I’d be lucky if I even get out of spawn or lock in a character. And to prevent that situation from happening, we could force the impatient players to show a fraction of patience for their “own” sake, which would benefit all other players wanting to play qp. It’s quite simple really. Just force them, because if they want to leave in the last seconds to queue up for a fresh round because they know they will lose, well, then f*** em… they ruin for me and others, so f*** em… that simple.
Getting rid of the backfiller system would be bad, yes, we can agree on that, and that’s not what I want the to change. I am merely saying that there should be an incentive to stop people from leaving at the last second, as this essentially makes the backfiller system cause annoyance to alot of dps players due to queue times.
Bad luck or good luck really doesn’t matter to me. I don’t mind losing at all. You win some, you lose some. But at the end of the day, there should atleast be a “game” to either lose or win. Joining at the very end of a match essentially gives people an instant loss, resulting in just sitting in queue, just to sit in queue.
If I joined a 2 minute steam roller game, whether I’m on the side getting steamrolled, or, if I’m on the side that IS steamrolling would be fine. Because atleast there would be 2 minutes left to play. That’s fine. I’m speaking mainly about the games where the game is essentially over already, but the leaver couldn’t be bothered to stick around.
If they can’t be bothered to stick around, they should be given an ultimatum to stay, or, have longer wait-time to join next game. Maybe there is no need for a soft-lock timer where they can’t join, but at the very least they could be placed in a de-prioritize queue to give them longer waits unless they finish their games properly. Would also work.
Don’t give them anything extra for staying, because thats what they SHOULD be doing in the first place. Give them a punishment of sorts if they don’t want to play the full match. I think a de-prio-queue would be a better fit maybe, as it would just be like the way queue system works now, just it would make leaving less appealing.
Not every match is good, you’re correct with that aswell, and I agree, and it doesn’t matter to me. But in order for a match to be good or not, you first have to be able to play in the first place. I don’t mind losing, I just want to actually play.
But when you join a game. How do you know how long is left.
Could say 10 seconds and …
no one touches point.
someones touches and enemy c9
someone touches and stall out for 2/3 minutes leading to a staggered fight that turns the game
If you join a game right at the end… thats a tough luck.
Nearly all leavers in that situation are solo queue players that just want to que again quickly.
If you stack chances are you’ll never get that .
When I play QP, which is fairly rare, I play with one friend because she hates people in ranked. And in all the hours we’ve played we have had a last second backfill game maybe once or twice. And pretty much had insta ques every time.
So, stop being belligerent and do something for yourself. Duo with someone.
No one wants to help someone who won’t even try help themselves.
There is no way to know exactly how long is left, but there should atleast be something to work with. And like I said, 9/10 times when you join a game which is already in overtime, it’s simply because a player deemed the game impossible to win because the last teamfight had already happened, and thus they leave. The situation where nobody touches the point is the VAST majority of the times what happens. Someone touching and enemy c9’ing is a rather ultra rare occurence when you are backfilling, and is in larger scale of things, negligible in terms of chances of happening. If I were to say how many times that happened during my 1700+hours of playing ow, I would say the chances of this happening is about 0.01% of the times, or even less. It’s not something that happens alot at all. Somone touching and stalling for longer periods of time requires that we in this case would have someone that stayed being close enough to atleast touch, which is rather rare aswell in backfill situations. That’s just the reality of it. The VAST VAST majority of last second backfilling means that you get an instant defeat. And those last second backfills are the only times I complain about being backfiller. It’s not fun, and thus not a good thing for the game.
It’s no longer about luck, at this point, it honestly happens more often than not. It wasn’t like that always, it’s fairly new that it happens this often, and that’s the core issue I’m addressing.
You said yourself that you rarely play QP, but for me, this is the main mode I’ve been playing. I can relate to your friend who don’t like the people in ranked, and I feel the same. I have no interest in hearing toxicity from idiots in ranked who think meta trumps skill(mind you, meta is important aswell, but not as important as skill. Having both skill AND meeting meta is ideal, but if you have to choose one over the other, skill wins).
I have quite alot fo experience in QP, and let me tell you, you might have more total gametime across multiple accounts, I can’t prove that you do or not as I am not aware of all your time combined. This is my one and only account, so you can take the time to check if you feel like it, I don’t care. But given the fact you said you rarely play QP, let me tell you as a mainly QP focused player, that in QP, it’s not rampant compared to what it has always been. There always were leavers, but not to this scope as it is now. That’s the issue I’ve been addressing all along, and I’m CLEARLY not the only one complaining about this. If you think this is a “me-problem”, then I suggest you take some time in QP and look for yourself. Queue as DPS for the fill experience if you want. But as tank or healer you’ll see even easier.
The problem here is that people have begun doing this more than ever before, and I’ve played solo all the time since closed beta. Trust me, it’s never been as bad as it is now, and I really feel like this should be addressed.
Do I think something will change? Probably not. But better to atleast point out the issue, rather than just sitting back and accepting the problem. That’s the whole point of this thread in the first place. A desperate reach to the people who could actually do something about it, in order to make their game slightly more palatable to play. That’s really all.
Let me ask you something, and give me a straight answer.
If you were to queue as dps, in qp. Would you PREFER to join at the very last second where someone left and you are backfilling for them, resulting in an instant loss for you? Or, would you PREFER to actually be able to control your selected character to atleast be able to engage the enemy team and be able to get further than doors of your spawn? Which do you prefer?
This is a dumb question… Of course I would prefer to be put in a fresh new game.
But I accept that by queuing QP that isn’t always going to be the case and sometimes I have to fill in. Sometimes that will be in a “good” situation and I get a good chunk of a game. Sometimes it is at the last second and I barely get to take a breath. It is just luck of the draw and one of the things that just happens. Because it is QP you might have to help fill in from time to time.
Ofcourse I would prefer this aswell, but I never said it had to be fresh.
I accept that I have to fill aswell, but when it means there is no “game” to be played, and it’s just an instant defeat because someone didn’t bother to stay at the very last end of the game, that’s something to be improved upon for the greater good of the game. It’s not unheard of that game-devs add in systems to games in order to force a better system upon people anyways. And quite frankly, it’s better to cater to the people that actually want the game to be in a better state, than to allow for people to make the experience sour for others. It makes more sense.
Everyone wants the game where they can pick who they like, and are given the opportunity to pop off.
Sadly, though. That is unrealistic.
Sometimes you get weird things…
the last moment back fill game
players that don’t want to help.
one tricks that pick the hero you wanted to play
and a billion other weird things.
These are all amplified playing QP, where everything is just a battle against RNG.
You queue knowing the game could be over in seconds, or it could be a long back and forth 8-6 Volskaya slog fest (had one of them last night… 32 minutes, utterly ridiculous).
Players can lose out in a battle of “first come, first served”, that’s completely fine. If I wanted to play Mccree, and someone else picks him faster than me, that’s completely fine. I have no issue with this at all. But it has nothing to do with the topic of this conversation. I’m quite aware that this is unrealistic, unless some form of pre-pick would be added to the game, similar to Heroes of the storm if you are familiar with how that works, but I’m fairly happy that this is not part of OW, so that’s something we don’t need to speak about here. It’s completely off-topic. This game is not perfect, and there are many things that can be annoying and quite tedious. But I’m simply referring to a single improvement that would be a quality of life improvement for every dps player in QP. EXCEPT ofcourse, the people that are leaving right at the end. It would affect them, but I’m saying “better that they get the problems rather than the people who have to pick up their scraps at the last second.”
Players who don’t want to help is also completely fine, it’s just qp, if the mercy wants to pocket a practicing widow, and not heal the rest of the team one single bit, I’m completely fine with that. It’s a non-issue for me. It’s annoying, sure, but at the end of the day, I honestly don’t care. All I care about is being able to play, whether it’s win or lose, good players or bad, good teamplay or not. All irrelevant to me. Just let me play with some substance. even 1 minute at the end is no problem, because with one minute, I can actually make contact with the enemy, and make an effort to try to turn this around. The last seconds of a match where I have to rely on whether my teammates possibly is close enough to stall long enough for me to get there(which they most of the time aren’t), is a bad experience, and that’s the only issue I’m raising. And a way to solve that issue, would be to punish leavers that leave at the last second of the match.
Sounds like quite the experience, but it’s also unique to ranked, so luckily this wouldn’t happen in qp, I don’t like games like that myself, so that’s partly why I mostly play qp. But I really don’t queue up “knowing the game can be over in seconds” or not. I queue to be able to play AT ALL. And the last second leavers that make me backfill a game that is already lost before I even pick a champion, is preventing that from happening, and this is the issue I’ve been raising this whole time. My problem is VERY specific, it’s not about the backfill-system in general. Just a small part of this, which makes the experience sour for everyone EXCEPT the one that is leaving.
Nothing wrong about a civilized discussion, now is there? Polar opposites debate eachother all the time. All I’m really doing is trying to bring awareness to what I feel is an issue with the game, and want to explain as clearly as possible exactly why, and draft ideas for solutions to this that would be as little of an intrusion as possible on as many people as possible:) I’m open to hear the other side even if I disagree with it. I’m willing to be convinced that the current system is how it SHOULD be, but so far, I didn’t see a compelling argument for why it should.
IMO this is counterproductive.
If you want the results i belive you are after thats the part you need to skip. I am certain blizz has realised that, and thats why nothing has happened.
To many would get filtered, ques would reach mars before musk does.
That means a loss of revenue, ppl buying boxes etc. Overall a loss for blizz.
How so? The system I proposed would only really affect one type of person, the ones that leave instead of finishing their matches. If they leave to something else, that’s not something the system would punish them for, but if they leave as soon as they realize they will lose, just to start a new fresh game, that just sours the experience for all other players. I’m saying the reason it should be like this is because the game’s philosophy should be “we want to make the game a positive experience for as many people as possible”, but, when it’s in it’s current state where the amount of leavers at the very end of matches has skyrocketed compared to before, that’s something that makes the game less enjoyable for alot of people, and sours their experience. And in my humble opinion, that’s not how a game should be, and if it’s in that state, it should be looked into to see if there is something that could make the experience better for all those others. Better to cater to the masses, instead of individuals, and this change would improve the experience for more people than it would sour it for others.
I’m not so sure about that. Before I made this post, I searched on the forums for a bit to see if I could see something similar as the topic I’ve raised. And when I couldn’t find any, I decided to bring it up. Better to speak up than to just do nothing, in my opinion.
Whether this happens or not is a good point. I can see that if less people complete their matches, that means they get less exp, meaning, less lootboxes as rewards. Maybe this increases the sales of lootboxes ever so slightly because they get less rewards? Could be. I acknowledge this. But seeing as blizzard don’t really earn that much from lootboxes in ow anyways, I don’t know whether it would actually be worth it for them. Not alot of people buy the lootboxes, given how easy they are to obtain. But you might be onto something if this is what you meant.
A small inconvenience, as i have already explained up top in my first post and down the road.
5 min restriction? (or 30 as in other games?) ppl wont care. Alt+tab exists.
The majority of pc users, This may be different for console given no alt+tab function, or like me, im running ffxiv, yesterday it was frostpunk on my second monitor.
Ppl do something else while in que even if they dont have a second monitor.
Reducing exp gain on leaving matches? ohh please, no one cares about that anymore unless they are a smurf on level 5 that want a fast specific legendary or lower skin.
Nearly everyone above level 100 got the first and second cosmetic skin they want on their main heroes. Reduced exp/less/slower level up box reward. never, NEVER worked even in theory.
If the downside for the player leaving, isnt severe enough. Nothing, NOTHING will change.
I assumed by intrusion you meant for the ppl leaving. I may have been wrong on that. So my answer was based on that assumption.
Thats why:
If blizz invokes, and enforced hard rules.
I do believe they understand that will be an overall loss for them.
Less ppl would want to launch overwatch except the dedicated players. Which, given new games coming out is on the decline. (Only basis on this is que times)
Another factor is that, tanks are an endangered species. They get nerf after nerf and blizz be like ‘plz play tank have a snack ticket for fast dps que’
Jeff has spoken several, several times about them having talks about how to reduce toxicity, que timers internally.
I cannot in my wildest delusions, believe they have’nt brainstormed or whiteboarded ideas on restrictions on leaving games or had the topic come up.
I was thinking more along the lines of:
Ppl get annoyed with a game, normal ppl (unlike me who just gets more toxic and wants to ruin it for others) LEAVE the game.
Meaning loss in sales.
ppl talk negatively about OW on steams, discord, whatever.
Meaning less new ppl wanna play. (May be outbalanced by a small portion of ppl who come cause they like the idea of hard restrictions. At least until they reach their boiling point and just leave)
We would see more f2p weekends.
Then somewhere down the road ow2 happens and i cant even predict what happens to ow1 anymore.
Sure, they can alt tab and wait, and I don’t have an issue with that. I do this myself aswell, and it’s just a normal thing to do when queue times are this lengthy anyways. However, lets say I sit down to play a few matches. If I want to play, then that is what I want most. Alt-tabbing just serves as a “time killer” until I can actually play the game, which is what I want to do. I don’t alternate between more than one games at a time, although some people might like to do so. I’d rather watch something on youtube or something while waiting for my queue to pop, and once that happens, it has my full attention until the round is over, and I repeat the process. If I would not be able to repeat the process, but instead having to watch youtube for longer periods of time in between my matches due to a penalty, then I would effectively reverse the roles, taking a break from youtube by playing a game, instead of killing time with a video whilst waiting for a game to pop.
Exactly, and this is why I feel like giving more rewards for completing the games fully would not give incentive to stay anyways, because the rewards are easily disregardable and pointless for the majority of people anyways, which is why there should be a punishment instead, as this would atleast have MORE effect than giving rewards. So we agree on this. However, I don’t want the punishment for leaving to be a severe thing. It should serve more as an inconvenience to the people that decide to leave at the end, in order to give them an ultimatum of sorts. “Would you rather wait longer to be able to play more? Or stay a few seconds longer, and then keep doing what you are doing anyways?” That’s what would help in my opinion, as they would just inconvenience themselves by doing so. If that’s what they want, then sure, be my guest. But it would still have a positive effect for other players, as the number of people who choose to inconvenience themselves probably isn’t that high. Why would one want to inconvenience themselves? it’s not a smart thing to do. Sure, some people would completely ignore this, but nothing indicates that this would be the majority. We are never ever going to get rid of all leavers, and that’s just the reality of things. Which is why I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m simply saying that this WOULD bring the numbers down, and might bring us to a scenario where less situations where you will have to be backfiller for the last seconds of a match that is essentially already lost would happen. It would STILL happen, but alot less frequently.
This is true, and is also quite damaging to the game, so I completely agree with this point, but it’s not really related to the topic of this thread. But for all intents and purposes, I do agree with you 100% on this point.
Could be that they did so, I’m not claiming that they didn’t, but as these ideas are not really shared very openly with the playerbase and public, I’d say it’s better to raise it on the forum so they can hear from the playerbase what we think about this. Whether they will even read, or listen to it is another story though. They used to be good at it, but I’m not so sure about this anymore. But it’s still the only ACTION I can think of taking, as the default would be to do nothing at all, which would essentially tell them: “You guys are doing great! nothing wrong here!”. And that’s not how I feel, and alot of others would not feel that way aswell. So better to raise it as a topic than ignoring atleast. Even if it is in vain.
I see, so my bad. I misunderstood and assumed you meant leave the game as in “leave match”. Not as in “Stop playing the game in it’s entirety”.
I feel that part of why people talk so negatively about OW is also related to the fact that the community can be pretty bad. I see both positive and negative people on daily basis, and I’ve come to terms with the fact that this is just how games ARE. There is very little we can do about a community AS a community. In a way, it’s more blizzard’s responsibility to “herd” the community in the right direction with restrictions, rules, punishments etc. I think it’s unrealistic that there can exist a “perfect” community, but there is always actions that can be taken to improve it to a better state atleast. And that’s what I feel this topic I raised would accomplish.
As for predictions for OW2, I really hope that they can improve upon things there atleast, although, the best solution would be to try and make both games greater, not leave the old one in a bad state and focus solely on the new one. As a bad experience with the first game could just aswell curb the enthusiasm to even get ow2 if they felt the first one was bad.
Thanks for a great post though, you made some good points, and I appreciate your input.
What are you talking about? this is not at all related to the subject at hand. The topic of the post is “DPS leavers when games are about to conclude(QP)”. No need to bring up the workshop or qp-classic or any of the other modes, because they are not the same as normal QP, and therefore irrelevant to this discussion. I want qp to be in a better place than it is now. Not avoid it by compromising and choosing something else. That doesn’t SOLVE the issue, it circumvents it. As I’ve clearly stated for you already several times now.
I DON’T mind waiting in queue to play dps, but I EXPECT to be able to actually play after sitting in queue for longer periods of time. Not being ejected back to mainmenu 15 seconds after. That’s the issue, so please stay on topic.
If I named the topic “QP seems broken. Any suggestions for replacement game-modes?”, your argument here would be on point. But that’s not what the topic is about. I seek improvement, not circumvention of an issue.
Yes. I am giving broad ideas to work around your original issue. (not really a difficult thing to comprehend). As your original issue is not going to change.
Given the amount of words you have typed (just tip, keep things short and concise). This issues bothers you far more that it should.
It is a “problem” that won’t change, they do not care about QP or what people have to say. So what is your next step, surely it is to look at options that you can take to alleviate the problem.
Many have been given
stacking
open que
background activities
other game modes.
You are unwilling to take action yourself.
Ultimately, they won’t help you. So help yourself.
Polar opposites debate eachother all the time. All I’m really doing is trying to bring awareness to what I feel is an issue with the game, and want to explain as clearly as possible exactly why, and draft ideas for solutions to this that would be as little of an intrusion as possible on as many people as possible:) I’m open to hear the other side even if I disagree with it. I’m willing to be convinced that the current system is how it SHOULD be, but so far, I didn’t see a compelling argument for why it should.