10.0.7 class changes and viability

Community General Discussion
1

hello
i want understand something that confuse me and make choosing main harder
so i aim to do +20s and i want good spec and my pool are frost mage and fury warrior and bm hunter

but when i read what people say in eu/us forums that make me confused what to go

frost mage forums complain about no changes for mage and that tier set in 10.1 is bad and make frost mage worst idk how

and fury warrior same no changes and people say it b tier

and bm hunter idk its loook going to be good in 10.0.7 but its my least favorite in this pool

so can someone explain for me please why these specs arent good or what the problem?
im not experienced player so i would like to know about these

my best wishes to you all ^^

2

Ok, first of all to clear something up:

If your aim is to do all dungeons at +20 then any spec is able to do this :slight_smile: . So you can go ahead and play what you like.

Now for the second part:

None of the above specs are specs that top players are “pushing” with. For the most part mages/hunters bring bl and warriors bring shout.

To be fair the only way that the spec you choose will make it harder for you, is that it will make it harder to get into a group. But as a dps player the best advice is to make your own groups.

Because of how groups work, my advice is to just make your own groups every time (no matter if you have the key or not), prioritize high rio players even if they are playing on their alts, and just spam keys.

If you keep playing something you enjoy and continue spamming your keys it is just a matter of time to get all dungeons on 20 :slight_smile: .

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3

Play whatever you have the most fun with, mate. All specs are viable to run 20s and if you play something you are having fun with, you will most certainly also play better.

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4

I totally agree with the above comments, everything is viable at +20.

Some specs will naturally preform better than others bit playing what you like is far more imprtant than what some dude on youtube decided was “meta” now.

I would take a good player of any spec for my group over a fotm reroller average joe anyday.

5

Community perception, if your spec isnt one of the 3 that the top players use, the community deems them bad and useless, despite all specs being more than viable for the content that the vast vast majority of people do.

Currently a frost mage has overall rank 30 of all dps in the world.

Fury rank 11 of all dps in the world.

Bm hunter rank 54 of all dps in the world.

So yea, unless you’re going for rank 1 ect, everything is viable…

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6

That is a very low key level goal.

Any thing should be viable for that.

Remember, +20 is something that the M+ boosters do as 4 man and still manage to time, Very easy

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7

people say that you can do any key with any class , even tho that’s technically right , it isn’t in reality. i’m doing lower keys than your goal but i rarely get invites because i’m a frost mage, people only invite me when they need bl :smiley: if you’re not pugging then i guess it’s true

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They said 20s. Not any key. And every class can do 20s. Even in reality. Will it take longer? Yes. But thats about it.

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Your experience =/= reality.

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yeah maybe . i just wanted to share my insight

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Best way is just to find a guild for reliable m+ push. Believe me, things will get easier.

12

Out of those 3 your best bet is frost mage. Acceptable AoE and strong single target without sacrificing AoE damage is a winning combination for a PuG centric Mythic+ class. You also bring lust, are acceptably tanky, and help your tanks kite which is very valuable when people are less experienced dealing with high damage trash. Your damage is also mostly sustained and doesn’t rely on your tank knowing an optimal route or high end strategy to play around your cooldowns unlike Fire, which is by a hair the more popular Mythic+ mage spec.

Fury has a target cap on its AoE, it’s pretty solid in most keys but falls flat when pulls get larger / combined and is superceded by arms in higher keys more generally.

BM Hunter has the problem is not really being able to do AoE and ST in the same build, so much so that the most optimal Mythic+ build foregoes AoE almost entirely to just focus on pumping single target and doing what cleave it can.

13

Honestly this is kinda just pug keys being behind the times / overly focused on single aspect of the meta. Frost mage doesn’t necessarily fit into the 3500 andybrew team comp but there are mages who play frost well into the upper echelons of Mythic+, with one of the highest rated mages in the world playing exclusively frost.

14

yeah that’s right but also there are doing the same thing with other classes ,too. but the question is should we act like all classes are top tier just because of they all have top tier examples or should we look at the average dps charts to make some sort of tier list ?
that’s literally my question btw need an answer xd

15

I think using overall damage as a metric isn’t the way to go. I also think pugs outside of the highest level have almost no idea why they’re making the decisions they’re making besides copying what appears to have worked for someone else with more understanding than they do. Frost’s incredibly underrated as a Mythic+ spec by the community at large.

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16

Afaik fury warrior has never been wanted in pugs due to its lack of utility.

If you run exclusively with friends you can make any spec work, but difficulty per unit performance varies, and you may find that more effort is required and a more challenging spec may feel like it’s holding you back (although in reality, you’re holding it back).

If you sometimes/always pug then it is also important to consider what pugs want. This is largely the only time you should consider someone else’s meta list; for friends-only gameplay, then make your own list based on what you enjoy and/or find easier to handle and ignore external judgements.

But if you are looking in the group finder, can you tell who’s who? Can you spot the person who has played a class that is currently FOTM for the past 6 years, vs the person who rerolled and power gamed for 3 weeks? (I guess RIO helps. Even on mid-level keys, I favour people who I can see a decent main score fore.)

It is not :joy_cat:

AFAIK, timing all 20s is 2900 rating, which according to raider io is the top 1% of players. https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-df-1/eu

Whatever your personal progress may be, never imagine that the player base in general finds 20s easy and won’t be extremely picky about why they invite for theirs. But I agree that all classes are viable; the real factors are how comfortable are they to play (subjective per player) and how desirable are they when pugging.

Exactly. The problem is that the longer might be in the order of weeks, or months, and possibly make it not even happen this season.

Again, no problem at all if the OP is only playing with friends and guildies, etc. One should only ever consider external meta lists if expecting to pug.

Well evidently it is, otherwise it wouldn’t be experience… :joy_cat: It may not be your experience, but it is clearly an experience that some players have.

A number of specs are underrated. It’s sad, but it doesn’t changed the experienced reality that it is harder to get into groups if you’re playing off-meta. Even way down in 16-18s, I am snapped up on my prevoker and often declined on my mistweaver.

And of course you do have to go through the lower bands to actually reach the 20+ keys in the first place. Even if the really good pugs are more sensible about what works, you gotta get past the firewall of midrangers first.

17

i just feel like frost can’t do much between cds and need some buffs on defensives
but i might be saying that because of the build i’m using. in rlp i experienced that my barrier ran out, ib is on cd and only thing i could use was alter time. if we had some sort of passive defensive or lower cd on barrier things could be different
also i hate rune of power but that’s a whole other topic

18

I don’t know much about M+ frost builds, just that I’ve got experience of the spec performing well and offering a damage pattern that on the surface seems extremely valuable in a PuG environment. This is what a friend of mine was running in his 27 Nokhud Offensive.

Looking at the above build you’ve got a 6% HP shield every time you blink, 4% flat magic DR, Ice Block, Cold Snap Block, Mirror Image, Alter Time, Greater Invisibility, and Ice Barrier. That’s a lot.

19

i think that’s the same build as mine but mirror image , invis and blink thing are not the things you can use as defensives on a position like i told . cold snap has a long cooldown and all those will save you for a few seconds when you get constant damages or if you’re lin a longer fight, then i use healthstones etc. but still feels weak. i know it looks a lot tho :smiley: maybe needs a buff idk

20

I’m not fully seeing your reasoning here. Blink might be primarily for mobility but you don’t need it for anything explicit 99% of the time, you’re also running ice floes which covers pretty much all of your movement efficiency / damage while moving concerns, on top of all the instant procs. Also maybe I’m missing something but reading greater invis it just looks like a 60% wall on a 2 minute cd.

Sure maybe in that specific example you had ran out of buttons, but you’ve still got an enormous amount of defensives / mitigation.