10.1.7 will give us a way to wyrm crests through world content, but it’s VERY limited.
You can earn certain currency through those new ‘Dreamsurge’ events.
But you can literally earn 1 per character per week AND that means you can’t use that currency to buy gear - which also costs the same as the crest.
So… Yeah…
Slow is one thing, but THAT is taking the cake.
Mind you; it used to be account wide; so that way you could earn gear/upgrades for a single character through alts. At least that was something. But they recently made it character exclusive.
Maybe they’ll change it back before it goes live. I hope they do.
The only thing i dont like about this gearing system is the item level caps on pve gear this should not be a thing you should be able to upgrade atleast 2 or 3 low pieces to 450 item level. For instance ill never get hold of mythic ashkanduur unless i paid to be boosted with gold ofc mythic raiding is not accesible to casual pve players
High end PvE players are focusing on everything that gives them edge.
Saw the annulet ring? It was almost BIS for everyone. The case could be the same here.
It’s pretty much as logically as possible. It’s flawless because don’t understand simple thing:
Why would normal and heroic raiders care? It’s only the mythic raiders that want to have as best gear as possible to do the progression. Some bosses are strict DPS race and having that edge gives guilds a reason to choose players who are having the best possible gear.
Your metaphore is clearly proving my point: mythics players would like to get 4 course meals made by a 5 star chef… but they would also like to get bonus: small part of their meal to 5 star food items.
It’s obvious that you may not understand that, but such things happens.
I understand that the problem may be due to a lack of adequate abstract thinking skills, but I believe that we should consider scenarios that do not only have ourselves in mind, by which we pursue selfishness losing the broader point of view.
Typical “but why do you care what other people wear”?
I actually do and there are a few reasons for that:
First of all, the ilvl inflation.
Second, whenever I try to form a group I usually take better players. Possibility of getting better players means higher io score and higher ilvl. Pure statistic.
Our brains have evolved in such a way that we simply recognize individual patterns. Just as people are currently looking at character classes in this season, just as people have always looked at the highest ilvl. This would cause a problem, in the form that people with no experience would be added to groups. By which there would be an increase in frustration among players, because no one wants to boost people who can’t play at the right level.
World of Warcraft is a mmorpg games. World content is mostly a solo content, it requires almost zero skill compared to high M+ and raiding.
That’s the reason why I am saying it would’ve been unfair.
As I wrote already a few times - World Content players do not require higher gear. They do not need that edge that mythic raider/high M+ keys require to actually progress.
There’s no logical reason AT ALL to give world content players mythic ilvl gear. Heroic ilvl gear should be maximum. Damn, I’d even say that the normal ilvl gear is higher than they actually need, but I think it’d be nice to give them some kind of goal to pursue. But after all it’s kinda senseless, because why would you need higher ilvl gear? Just for the sake of having it? Killing 200k hp mobs 2 seconds faster is your highest ambition in this game? That’s actually kinda sad. There are other, better things to do in WoW. Gearing is straight connected to progression.
The only reason why someone would like to have mythic gear ilvl from world content are people who are lazy and do not meet requirements to join the proper groups(or form the groups) and lack fundamental knowledge about their classes.
It’s a solution to a non-existing problem that could cause more harm than good.
For once in a while, we don’t have to participate in such content and I’d rather we keep this way !
On the topic, the system has just one flaw: not being able to send crest to alts, thus are becoming obsolete quite early on during the patch life cycle.
And yeah, we should deffo be allowed to at least purchase trinkets and weapons which make a huge difference.
No. It wouldn’t. Because it’s not even a little bit comparable.
Nice hidden insult there.
Also this part: “we should consider scenarios that do not only have ourselves in mind” is pure irony considering the rest of your replies.
There is no such thing. The ilvl does not get inflated because it uses what is already there; nothing beyond.
The vast vast majority of world content players will never engage with stuff like M+ and definitely not mythic raids. Pure statistic.
No it wouldn’t.
Because most of them are not applying.
Also; a few higher items does not make them viable. You could easily pick them out; if elitist behaviour is what you prefer.
So what?
cough “we should consider scenarios that do not only have ourselves in mind”.
That sounds incredibly elitist.
And also very very arrogant to assume you get to decide that.
The reasons have been stated to you multiple times.
Just because YOU dont think those reasons are valid, doesn’t mean they aren’t.
The only reason why someone wouldn’t want that to happen is because they are an elitist with a fragile ego, who gets the only fulfillment in their life through achieving meaningless things in a game.
I can be mean too.
You really didn’t understand the proposal, did you?
I was suggesting grind + time investment to such an extent that getting something from that effort would and COULD not have any impact on ANY serious mythic progression. Because by that time you’d have progressed already!
Just because it’s not a problem for you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Also: “we should consider scenarios that do not only have ourselves in mind”.
You’re ignoring your own argument AGAIN.
This is probably not a bad idea. I have been in both ends of this throughout the years. I currently do world content only and care nothing at all for the stats or ilvl on my gear. I do however progress in other ways, and then see that it would probably be good for those of you who do world content only but care for character power, to have a path that goes all the way to max ilvl even if unattractivly slow.
So do you think that players that have no interest in M+ and Raiding and CHOOSE to take 4 times longer than neccesary to gear up when they could just do mythic+ or raiding would suddenly start applying to +16s when they get one bit of 447 gear?
The people that want to do Keys and raids are already doing keys and raids. They are not sitting waitng for gear to be upgradeable from world quests before they start. This makes Zero sense…
So basically your sole reason is your ego would be hurt by someone getting loot. EVEN though you would get your loot 3 months before they do you would still feel the need to be lording your "Higher skill"level over them… exactly how insecure are you?
AHHH so here we have it, because these players choose to play the game differently to you they do not deserve to have any kind of progression in the game. Meaning in your mind, the way you play is the only right way to do it. Nice take…
Are you saying that one mythic ilvl item per 2-3 weeks wouldn’t be an upgrade? I know some players who are doing mythic and are still having heroic ilvl items.
Yeah it wouldn’t. It would be catastrophically even worse!
I presented my point of view, tried to find the golden middle and balance between ours, but it seems you’re still too blind to accept the simpliest fact that high-end PvE players will do everything to have the edge for the progression.
It is already happening. At the end of the seasons people are getting higher ilvl gear.
Then they don’t need mythic ilvl gear. Because world content isn’t something that you progress.
Yes it would. Join some M+ group and notice how people are mostly choosing higher ilvl players. That’s a fact.
So they don’t need mythic ilvl gear.
cough I am speaking from experience as someone who played world content in the previous patches cough
Am I elitist for wanting people to actually put effort before they get a reward?
Better gear mostly means reward.
It seems that you pretty much don’t understand simple things.
You expect getting highest ilvl gear possible for a content that doesn’t require as much effort as other. It is not that I am an elitist, but you just expect the same, because you know that you are not able to achieve in any other way what other players who show a minimum of interest.
To be honest it’s kinda sad that you cannot really participate in group content in MMORPG game.
The fact that you can’t achieve what others can, despite paying the same amount of money, is really only a testament to you.
If you think you deserve the same, despite not showing even a little bit of any efforts, it means that you are the problem.
They were rejected by me for the reasons above, they were totally mostly meaningless.
Not really.
That’s pure justice. Effort = reward.
Do you think that people who are playing chess should get grandmaster title even if they just play casually and aren’t putting any efforts while playing? That’s senseless.
Are you saying that mythic ilvl items wouldn’t have any impact on the mythic progression? If yes - then it seems that you have no idea what a mythic progression is then. Which shows that this discussion is pretty much pointless because you have no idea what are you writing about.
I am sorry, because I thought that you did and I wanted to have some constructive discussion.
It is almost impossible for a mechanic to talk to a fruit vendor about the design of internal combustion engines in cars…
It affects everyone. A general change causes a change in everything. Below that post I have described what the problem is.
No.
That would’ve been just another thing to farm. It’s already bad that players who raid have to farm M+ and people who do M+ are mostly farming raids for the BIS gear.
It would’ve been a total disasted to force high M+/mythic raiders to farm world content also.
Yes. I am very insecure because I don’t want a free wellfare gear.
It’s not about how insecure I am, but how entitled some players are that they feel they deserve same reward for putting much less effort.
Exactly, that’s the thing.
People who are putting more effort deserves better. Isn’t that simple?
People who are doing world content don’t need to cooperate with others, don’t need to organize raids/mythic + runs, they don’t need to use voice-chats… most of them aren’t even reading about their classes and how to use them for the maximum performance.
So… They just don’t need mythic ilvl gear for anything they do. There’s no reason for them to have it. Heroic ilvl gear is just as good for them, damn even normal or LFR would suffice.
Just by simply playing the class right they would’ve been doing more DPS than with the mythic ilvl items.
1000 world quests for one mythic item? Sure thing. I don’t care.
You know that there are more things to do in PVE than just +20M keys? There are 0 guilds that progressed mythic Sarkareth with full gear from the previous season.
Point still stands.
Also - there are currently only 16 +30 timed runs in the world, so I guess you are just overexaggerating.
And trust me - people who are raiding mythic and doing high end keys are looking for anything that gives them edge always.
If doing world content would give them a slight chance of getting better item, they would do it.
Inb4 people say that people are only gearing in the first 2-3 weeks and they just chill and aren’t getting any upgrades at all for the whole season.
Because that would mean only one thing - they have clearly no idea what they are writing about.
You are of course exagerating this but i will grant you, people are still getting upgrades. I am still waiting on one ring at 447. I havent yet decided if i will just craft one or sit and wait for the vault. People are still getting upgrades but the gearing curve is now exponentially weighted at the start of the season. Within 2 weeks of Season 2 launch people in my guild were 442 ilvl. they have spent the rest of the season farming the last 5 ilvls.
No one is proposing that world quest content give that level of upgrades but the chance to farm one piece of 447 gear every 3 weeks would allow progression and would have no effect on people doing M+.
While they were farming that gear the chances are they would get 2-3 raid drops and countless M+ drops let alone the crafted gear they could make with all the aspects they get from M+ and raid.
Its ok to admit you would be butthurt to see a world content player get some extra fun because you only want people to play the same way you do. Not everyone enjoys the same things you do.
And there would be literally no effect on M+ because they would have no RIO score, so they would not get into keys, no one would invite them. They likely would take so long to gain ilvl that by the time they had the ilvl for a HC raid it would be end of tier anyway.
If anything its unfair that there are not more options for World content players to get the gear…
Who said 2-3 weeks? I sure didn’t.
Maybe an heroic upgrade every 2 weeks or something, sure.
I don’t think you understand that I personally don’t want to be done with gearing; ever.
I like working towards something; it gives my content and my activity meaning.
I don’t at all expect or ask for world content players to be running around fully decked out in mythic gear.
Well duh! That’s happening regardless of more people having access to the ilvl that’s already in the game! What are you even talking about, man?!
You are being obtuse on purpose.
Because grinding content for a long time isn’t effort?
Shush now.
Definitely elitist.
I am done with getting upgrades through world content.
I currently have to do LFR wings on a weekly basis for 3 wyrm crests per week, so I can continue gearing.
LFR is NOT world content and I don’t enjoy doing it. THAT is my issue at the moment.
This was my last reply to you because you cannot be reasoned with and simply disregard things that are being said.
He’s trying to lay blame on ilvl going up in the next season on world content players having access to a bit higher gear that they currently do; ilvls that are currently already in the game.
Which honestly is part of my issue; you reach the end of the gearing process too fast, too easy. That’s why I would love some long lasting grind. Akin to Korthia.
I know many weren’t a fan of that content, but I was. One of the issues of course was that it was basically mandatory for many types of players; that would no longer be a thing and I think that makes all the difference.
That’s subjective I guess, i much prefer it this way.
They could just let any item be upgraded to max ilvl through the current flightstone system, deterministic gearing has real no downside, the rewards to upgrade items just need to match the difficulty of the content.
Time and effort should always be rewarded with guaranteed reachable goals.
Or just give us item vendors because RNG is still stupid and I don’t like being forced to raid just to push m+ because raid trinkets are always incredibly broken
Agree 100%. In this case i think that we can agree the world content isnt difficult but we could reward time spent.
So for instance if you spam mythic dungeons for 20 hours per week you can get a load of rewards.
You could theoretically get 20 bits of loot at 431 ilvl. You also get a potential 12 aspect crest fragments per dungeon so conservatively you could end up with 240 aspect crest fragments or 16 aspect crests. Enough to upgrade 5 bits of gear to 447 or craft 4 new 447 items. You also get 3 vault slots at 447.
So each week you could get 6 447 items. Now that i look at it like this it seems WAY too much.
If you could only get 1 447 item per 2 weeks in world quests you would still be so far behind mythic+ players that it would have ZERO impact to anyone else. But the value that this progression would give to players who didnt want to engage in group content would be HUGE.
The chances are that most world content players wouldnt even be able to earn in a season what an M+ player would earn in a week. Now that seems unfair to me.
You’re still going around the circles without any proper argumentations for your wish.
You’re the one who said that hc and +16M keys are joke. I have literally no idea what else would you need? Free 447ilvl item every week for just paying subscription?
That’s ridiculous.
I proposed the best option: HC ilvl gear cap for the World Content.
People like you are satisfied because they have strong gear for the world content.
And people who are doing high end PvE content wouldn’t feel forced to farm the content they do not want to do.
See the point above.^
Heroic upgrade every 2 weeks? Sure thing.
Mythic(447) ilvl gear for world content? Nope.
Then work for your gear. Learn how to play your class properly, cooperate with other players, put some effort.
Work smarter, not harder.
If people would’ve gotten a chance to get higher ilvl gear faster it would happen faster. Simple as that.
Tell me why would you need mythic ilvl gear for the world content? It’s not me who’s obtuse. It’s you who simply don’t understand how the progression and gearing works.
I have much wider point of view, because I am looking at the problem from the both sides.
As I wrote above - work smarter, not harder.
Why?
No one is forcing you to play LFR.
You can aswell work for your gear. As I wrote above - learn the class, learn the mechanics of the bosses, form groups for the PvE content.
Sounds like you couldn’t counter any of the arguments.
That what happens when your only point is “I deserve mythic ilvl gear for the world content!”.
Answer me this: Would you be fine if the world content was dropping mythic ilvl items that are working only for the world content? Just like the PvP items.
You are missing the point - just because something is faster doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t do the other content.
Mythic raiders would’ve been raiding, doing M+ and world content for the best gear possible.
As I wrote above, because I see that you also cannot really realize that would force mythic raiders/high M+ players to farm world content aswell. Even just for the slight upgrade.
I’d agree if there was some kind of separate tier-sets that works only for the content, so other players wouldn’t need to farm it. It could’ve been even higher than mythic ilvl, I don’t care.
Which is what I’m doing in group world content. Don’t be so condescending.
Grinding for weeks and weeks IS effort. Don’t be so condescending.
You’re throwing out these sentences that mean nothing and that have absolutely nothing to do with what’s being said. Start making sense.
I already have repeated myself several times and I’m sick of you just ignoring it:
Do you understand those words?
Not for you to decide how I play and what I enjoy.
So mind your own business.
Oh it’s that old chestnut. But if there’s a reward on a WQ that might come in handy for a raid, then all of a sudden that WQ becomes mandatory and Blizzard is forcing you to do it! Because that’s how things work with people like you.
What applies to others, doesn’t apply to you. You are above the simple rabble.
You have none. Except for egocentric, selfish ones.
To quote your own words:
If you get to reject stuff, so do I.
This back and forth has become completely meaningless.
I don’t need your approval. I don’t need anything from you.
Your opinion is worthless to me.
I have stated what I want from the gearing system. /out
