I don’t understand why the devs are so against of giving us an instant movement ability, just like basically every other melee class has. Right now, ret is one of the clunkiest specs in the game.
In PvP, the absence of it makes the class play extremely slow and predictable, and most importantly, vulnerable to pillar humping. Having frequent freedoms does not really do much - especially since you need to use two GCDs just to start moving.
I would really welcome a talent to make Final Reckoning also root all targets hit and port you to the location - now that would be really cool class fantasy wise.
Or at least, make the unbound freedom speed increase as well as the LaotL speed increase stack with the divine steed increase, so we have some tools to prevent pillar humping and such that we don’t need outside assistance to stop that…
Yhea kinda given up on any of the sort some time ago… still ill always hope for a real gapcloser.
But one can go with a heavy ranged specc atleast with
2 Hammers with final verdict that can reset. Wings that lasts 30 sec with 30% dmg and haste + the extra duration from mad paragon. Steed increasing Verdict range even more, dont know if Exo is worth getting if it doesnt give holy power.
Edit: More on topic response, ppl just dont ask for it on the forums… like ever. They ask for spells like Laotl back and speed of light. Exo has been very important for some reason as it has spawnd several topics over the years it was gone, same with auras and blessings.
Gapclosers however?.. no, ppl dont make topics about those ever.
Don’t get me wrong - there are some interesting specs one can make with the talents - I made like 10 different fun specs already, including one that can in theory have 70+ second uptime on Crusade in an ideal 3v3 arena setting.
However, the class feels extremely clunky and predictable to play due to the absence of instant movement ability (as well as due to everything being on GCD). A gap closer, even on a long cd, would make the class a LOT more enjoyable to play.
There are 2 main reasons ive stuck with Paladin, ive usualy found it fun to play (cata excluded) and the sunk cost fallacy. In nearly all expansions since TBC ive wanted a gapcloser tho, but ppl ask for weird stuff and come with excuses as to why paladins dont nead one, in basically every single expansion.
Ppl just ignore now when a gapcloser is asked for these days and ask for what i mentioned above instead. Just look at this post at the deffening silence from the rest of the community on this. Ive only seen 1 other person ask for a gapcloser other then you.
Your class has a lot of utility and self healing, on top of that you also want mobility? You’re one of those who want their class to be overpowered with no weaknesses and have everything.
Well, then give Warriors self healing and utility.
And give Monks more self healing.
And give Death Knights mobility.
And so you make every class a carbon copy of each other with no weaknesses or strenghts because they would be all the same but with different transmogs.
Remove ALL warrior selfhealing, then come back to us about our mobility. You cant compare the 2 in the slightest. Just look at the healing done in any BG and tell me warriors cant self heal, take a look at any class infact and tell me other classes cant heal!
Any healing Rets can do is nerfed by 50% in pvp, then add a freaking warrior debuff and guess where we are at. Warrior selfhealing costs them what… a GCD at worst? A Rets self healing costs us our main dmg ability.
Cool, then don’t ask for mobility buffs when the design of your class is “I heal and I’m useful but I’m slow” and Warrior is “I don’t heal and I’m useless but I’m fast”.
You basically want your class to be broken. Posts like this make me happy that devs don’t listen to feedback.
It’s not that they can’t heal, it’s HOW they heal.
You can talent Second Wind as Arms and go afk or run away and you will be healing. Is that any useful? No.
Yes, your class was so stupidly broken that they had to nerf it multiple times, both damage AND healing because you were 1 shotting people and also immortal.
Arms: Mortal Strike 50% healing reduction every 6 seconds, 1 GCD.
A spec with literally 0 self healing, so basically you need a healer babysitting you or you just apply the debuff and die without doing anything.
Fury: Slaughterhouse 5% healing reduction every 80 rage (so at least 3-4 GCDs PER ACCUMULATION) stackable 8 times so 40%. Decent self heal IF you have uptime, which is likely to happen in a BG.
You are one of those who look at the numbers but don’t really understand them, sorry but you’re not worth more than a single response, I’m not gonna waste my time explaining you maths.
Indeed, the amount of ignorance and arrogance from Paladins is astounding.
Ah yes where is Arms self healing? Name spells please.
Back in WoD only a few expansions ago we had extra movement speed up over 50% of the time so you are just flat out wrong on this.
This is just not actually true.
On the utility front Rogue has MORE utility than Ret paladin.
Do you want to start calling rogue a utility class?
What about warriors who is what makes ret not squishy in PVP.
Warrior has quite a lot of utility on demand and often.
Just because you do not know how the class works does not change that.
I love that you of all people say that to Bodhi as you do not even know what stats ret should go for yet say you do.
And just to be clear the ONLY CLASS blizzard has EVER described as slow but when they get to the target they are juggernaut hard hitting is DK.
Well not counting the one you named, Victory rush, impending victory and say Rallying cry (that also happens to buff your other self healing as they are based on your max health oh and counts as UTILITY aswell.)
But then again, is arms even the major player here? You are cherry picking from 2 specc to argue your points VS 1 specc.
Arms… pvp talent Duel, great for protecting whoever is being tunneled. War banner.
Other then that, mobility and crowd controll is utility. AoE slow that cant be dispelled on same CD of our single target magic slow. AoE fear on 30 sec shorter CD then our blind.
Slow with no CD basic skill that lasts 15 sec VS pvp talent on a 10 sec CD attack that lasts 2 sec.
The option to leap across the map, CC the off target then charge back into the main target is utility for the team. None of those options are in the books for paladins. The utility we have are dispellable, all of it! The CC, the mobility, the blessings, the defence. And unlike warriors our mobility is getting worse over the expansions… not better. I didnt sit in roots from vanilla til WoD, atleast i had that!
I know what it means, now if you wanna ignore things that’s you problem and I won’t discuss anymore with someone who is not even trying to be objetive.
Victory Rush and Impedict Victory are the same spell, the first requires killing a target to be used which is never going to happen in pvp, and the second is a 25 second CD that you can only pick if you refuse to take your only Stun, which is obviously never worth.
And the other is a 3 minute defensive CD, are you really gonna compare that with two instant spells (WoG and FoH) that heal like 20-40% of your HP every single cast and are spammable? Please stop.
No, just no. CC is not Utility. Damage is not utility. Healing is not utility.
If you are really unable to see the difference, you’re not worth my time. I’m not replying to you anymore, you can keep raving if you want but you will get nothing. Bye.
But this wasent the question now was it? You said you had 0 and asked me to name your “mythical” selfhealing abilities, and i did. That you are moving the goalpost with excuses and what about-ism aint my problem here.
Did i say dmg was utlity? Anyway… “healing is not utility”… got it ^^
Edit: but as you like what about-ism so much, what about Monks, druids, shamans and i guess upcomming evokers? They all have ofhealing as an option, decent gapclosers and far less mobility issues. But nah… let ONLY the Paladin not have one.
And about DKs… they dont need mobility, already hard to slow down but will have 2 gapclosers as a standard.
This is not true the class is very squishy so mobility is not the only weakness.
CC is part of the utility kit just because YOU do not think it is does not change that.
Rogue has MANY abilities that help the group directly and indirectly you know Utility.
Warrior has things like commanding shout and for PVP specifically they have something called safeguard a damage reduction for your friend this is the biggest reason why ret is not squishy in pvp right now.
And is why you do not see ret in 2v2 but in higher ones you do see it.
Says the person who do not even know what abilities other classes have nor have you even listened to people who do know.
You do not understand what the word Utility is and you talk about how much paladin has yeah you are just not worth talking to about it as you clearly just do not know what you are talking about.
Is your level of logic because they are plate users all plate users should have the same mobility as each other?
Did you not read that literally not that long ago paladin had 50% or 70% movement speed up 50 or 100% of the time. (that is half of the time or all the time)
Paladin used to be very speedy.
The whole low mobility thing is crap because we who played paladin for some time know that is not how it needs to be.
And EVEN if we follow the lore logic paladin should be fast because they should be on the horse 24/7 they should have longer reach than anyone else in melee because they are on a horse and therefore further away from the enemy.
That’s always been my biggest gripe with retri… It’s not just the mobility though. It’s the whole design. Holy power generation and basically strict pve rotation get old fast. Bubbles you can kite out, same with wings. You can have lots of fun with ret against not so skilled players during your burst windows but that’s it and it still takes quite a bit of build up to blast people off due to holy power, you can’t just press a few buttons and go ham like a warrior… I mean pala is a builder/spender support class so I get that, but it’s either FUN or snoozefest. It could be so much better. I tried Guardian in Guild Wars 2 and I felt much more like a paladin.
Tbh they have better cds too… Bop and sac is kinda lame… Rets only there cause of two pvp talents … Cc breaker and freedom for warr and ret during go’s… I get the talents are good just feels a bit weird.
Most classes have more selfhealing than paladins though, i think most of us just dont want the useless horse and maybe change that into a charge instead
haahahha
