WTF is this crap kind of system where if you get kicked for being a new player or group over agro’s and blames tank etc, you get kicked from group and end up with multiple time penalties and lose out on rewards…
Like who thought that was a good idea?
This is happening all the time, if you dont rush = kick, if you are new player = kick, you can’t agro 10 mob groups at once = kick…, never done dunegon before = kick…
Then you are the one who deserted and penalized for it?
WTF BLIZZARD?
Nobody thinks it’s a good idea.
The problem is that all the other ideas are even worse.
Afterthought: I’ve DPSed and tanked hundreds of dungeons, and never been kicked from one. I’ve certainly seen unjustified kicks, so I know they happen, so it can happen to anyone, but if it’s happening to you a lot, consider what part you may be playing in that.
It’s the lesser evil.
If there was no deserter debuff for votekicked players, tanks and healers would take random groups hostage. Tank doesn’t like Uthgarde Keep? Healer doesn’t like Stratholme? Stay afk at the entrance until kicked out and find another dungeon within a few seconds since tanks and healers have instant queues.
or you know - just fully remove the deserter debuff so people who dont want to play with “x” group can just leave without being punished.
dont think forcing people to play something is a way to go
Just let anyone freely leave the dungeon and screw the other 4 players because there are no penalties?
Forcing people to play is the way to go in this case, nobody other than themselves decided to queue for those dungeons after all.
It’s part of the group finder. Noone’s forcing you to use the group finder. Part of the group finder is that you can’t choose what people to play with. Doing dungeons without the group finder doesn’t have the deserter debuff and you can hand pick who to play with.
i mean, apply that logic to M+. now that’s screwing others because people cant be replaced. but yet that’s not punished, because yeah! hell, we cant even have data of how many keys someone left, when, etcetera.
but I dont get how leaving a LFG is screwing anyone, when everyone’s replacable in a minute. no one should be forced to spend their time to benefit others, it should be a choice.
imagine a poor healer who’s getting abused verbally but they cant leave a run because they’d get punished. yeah - that’s definately not how I want things, and using other people and their time so I dont lose mine isnt a type of behavior I support.
you can stay with your opinion and enjoy getting forced to do things you dont want to, but I prefer doing things I enjoy instead.
deserted debuff is a lazy system, very old and over-rated, especially now when you already dont get a debuff if you’ve killed first boss and left the group.
System was made due to all the leavers way back when get the wrong dungoens.
Its far from perfect 
M+ doesn’t work the same way as random normal and heroic dungeons, one is specifically aimed towards guilds or other organized groups of players while other is aimed towards everyone and players can solo queue for it. I don’t think Blizzard even records desertion as a player stat. It doesn’t exist for dungeons and raids, and as far as I know it’s not recorded for PvP as well. Besides, imagine someone trying to lower their key because they don’t want to do a specific dungeon. A 30 min penalty every time they quit the dungeon would’ve been horrible. I’m not saying that M+ leavers shouldn’t have any penalties, but it should be something other than a deserter debuff.
Everyone isn’t usually replaced within a minute unless we’re talking about DPS. When our tank or healer left for whatever reason, we had to wait 5-10 minutes for a new one to join (and most of the time others have left because they had enough of waiting).
You still get the deserter debuff if you quit after killing a boss, it’s just reduced for every boss killed before you quit.
I know exactly what you’re talking about, Troneon.
I’ve seen unjustified kicks as well. Some of the cases, it was me on the receiving end. All those reason you mentioned are what people use.
To those that (like to) rush, i’d say: Rome was’nt build in 1 day.
Infact, it’s a very logic theory: You rush, 9 times out of 10, you die.
In real war, it’s the exact same thing, you go run into the battlefield without using some common sense, running in there like a headless chicken… you die.
For the new player reason, i’d like to say the following
Give someone a chance to show himself, to prove what they can do, because there was a time when you started playing the game.
For the “can’t aggro 10 mob groups at once” reason:
Some may be able to pull so many mobs, others don’t, so i’d like to ask them the following:
Does it really matter if someone can aggro 10 mob groups or not?
Does it really hurt if someone can aggro less mob groups?
It may take abit longer but as long as you can get the job done, then what’s the problem? Like i said above: Rome was’nt build in 1 day.
As for the “Never done dungeon before” reason:
Just because someone has never done a dungeon, does’nt neccesarily mean they will fail. It does’nt mean they will die (or get anyone else killed in the group)
Either way…
I, myself consider those that make themself guilty of kicking people due to any of those mentioned reasons elitist jerks (and that’s me putting it mildly)
I confirmed myself yesterday that after first boss you dont get a debuff.
Then either they’ve recently changed it or you were lucky, because I still got a 5 min deserter debuff on an alt when I quit before last boss at ToS. If other players have left before you it might be why you didn’t get it as well.
Im pretty sure I was kicked out the first. and dont think its a luck, Im almost sure that’s how its supposed to work. if you leave after 1st boss you dont get a de-buff
I understand and agree with the penalty. It’s here to prevent people from just leaving at will and ruining the runs. Yes, it’s imperfect and yes it can be abused, but it’s the lesser of two evils. Just perform well, be polite and don’t slack and you shouldn’t have an issue with this most of the time, unless you’re in a very toxic group or a troll group whuch isn’t that common from my experience.
What I don’t agree with however is the time penalty. I believe it’s unnecessarily high at the moment. I think 15 minutes is more than enough, rather than 30, but it’s not that big of a deal.
I don’t see what Blizzard can do here, I really don’t. If you remove the vote to kick system, then it opens up random dungeons to be rife with abuse, trolling and other shenanigans. While vote to kick abuse might be an issue, it’s the lesser of two evils and ultimately provides players, all players, with a mechanism to decide who they want in their group. No one should be forced to play with someone they don’t want to play with, even if the reason is stupid.
I’m going to take a leap here and say that OP is at fault for getting kicked, based on his obnoxious forum behavior, which usually translates pretty realistically into the real game. I don’t have any evidence of that, obviously, but I’m still allowed to draw my own conclusions from everything that I have.
Listen buddy, there’s not that many ways to get kicked, and here’s what they usually are:
You’re bad at the game (unless you’re a tank, this is almost never going to happen, when I was new I got kicked like once out of a dungeon for it and I did hundreds overall, and I was really really bad).
You’re AFK (deserved kick).
You’re acting obnoxious or just being annoying in general (this is why most kicks happen btw, causing beef with someone else is 80% of the time going to result in somebody getting kicked).
Random kick/premade kicks you (I’d like to say that this happens every 1/1000th dungeon if I’m being generous. I can remember one case where I got kicked because of it).
Meme kick (meaning kicking somebody because they’re a panda etc. I’d say this is the same as a random kick, and the frequency of it is about as rare as well).
I’d say over 99% of dungeon kicks can be put in one of the above categories. If you get kicked constantly, like I mean this happens to you multiple times a day, then you’re either committing a 1 (as a tank) or a 3 (or alternatively you like going AFK in the middle of the dungeons constantly, but then getting kicked should be self-evident). Anyways, you can fix all 3 of those. The only kicks outside of your influence are numbers 4 and 5, and those are so rare that I wouldn’t include them in any arguments.
It’s brutal for islands where they’re a group of 2, and you’re the third wheel. They wanna only scout potential mobs that drop items, and therefore kick you for going about the island normally. Doesn’t happen all the time but I have seen an increase in it lately.
This will change since they are modifiying it next reset when the patch comes live. Regardless of what you kill just for completing the island you get the same reward the only things that influence it are the difficulty you play in and if you win.
This is pretty much the best answer.
Alternatives seem pretty bad, and there does need to be a deterrent for actual AFkers and abusers.
Papudeath, Have you been living under a rock? Years ago, people would’nt abuse systems like that. People are becomming more hostile and violent by the day. (or maybe i should say “toxic” in this case). I’ll give you an example: I was on another character as a Priest some years ago (because i was unable to play for like 3 years due to technical reasons), doing my job as a healer. We had a Death Knight as a tank. He failed to keep aggro, i got attacked, died and then he had the audacity to blame me. Another time, there was a Death Knight. A plate user. I was on my Mage (which is a cloth user). A cloth item dropped. That Death Knight “need” on the cloth item while i was the one that needed it. So i told him: First off: you are a DK, you’re a plate user, i’m a cloth user. He responded with “I need it for my alt” and i told him “If you need it for your alt, then why did’nt u run this dungeon on that alt?” and he kept being stubborn, refusing to transfer it to me. Anyways… the point is: In today’s world, people aren’t affraid to abuse the systems that are available which often goes along with alot of hostility. I wish it was’nt, i really do, but that’s the world we live in today.