So you just said what the problem is, people don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t think dungeons should be tuned for people who refuse to watch a simple Youtube video.
Nope a dungeon should not be listed in the season pool of it only possible to do it with voice and coordinated group. I timed it several times on 15 now. But it’s only possible if we do it internally
No, what I’m saying is that the mechanics are too punishing, mob health is too high and mob/boss damage is way too high, even on lower key levels.
Take Coggleston for instance in the Opera Beast encounter. Dude can 3-shot even a 270 ilvl tank. Not even popping cooldowns can save you from that boss’s broken-a-f armor shred ability.
Maiden of Virtue is… alright. More of a DPS check than anything else. Moroes is surprisingly easier than I thought considering what a coordination check he was in OG Kara, while Attumen is a bit of a nightmare.
Even with a full group of 270 to 280 ilvl players to assist me, I only managed to complete a +2 Lower Karazhan on +2 pacing. Karazhan is so overtuned that I would rather attempt a +15 anything else than try to wade through this utter mess.
Fact that I’ve completed much higher keys on +3 pace should tell you how difficult lower Kara is.
Why not? I totally respect that if you are not a lets say an experienced player that it has to be changed, people need to learn simple mechanics tbh also people need to learn to use defensives on the right moment immo
Yes if you dont interrupt Dinner bell it wil likely one shot a 270+ ilvl tank, so learn from it interrupt Dinner bell and GG.
Greetings!
We appreciate all the feedback on the Season 4 Mythic+ dungeons that has been made thus far. We’ve made the following adjustments that will be in effect with scheduled weekly maintenance (starting tomorrow, August 9 in this region):
Dungeons and Raids
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Mythic+
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Affixes
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Shrouded
- Zul’gamux now casts Blood Barrier less often.
- Zul’gamux has found a new location to hide in Return to Karazhan: Upper.
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Shrouded
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Grimrail Depot
- Grom’kar Far Seer’s Storm Shield can now be purged.
- Grom’kar Cinderseer will no longer cast Lava Wreath.
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Railmaster Rocketspark
- Borka the Brute’s Mad Dash damage reduced by 30%.
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Skylord Tovra
- Thunderous Breath initial damage reduced by 25%.
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Iron Docks
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Fleshrender Nok’gar
- Dreadfang’s Shredding Swipes should no longer hit players multiple times.
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Oshir
- Feeding Frenzy now requires Oshir to suffer 5% damage to be interrupted (was 8%).
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Skulloc
- Skulloc’s melee damage reduced by 15%.
- Koramar will no longer cast Shattering Blade.
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Fleshrender Nok’gar
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Return to Karazhan: Lower
- Ghostly Philanthropist will no longer cast Throw Coin.
- Gang Ruffian’s Poisonous Shank damage reduced by 30%.
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The Opera Hall: Wikket
- Winged Assistant health reduced by 30%.
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Moroes
- Moroes’ Garrote duration reduced to 1 minute (was permanent).
- Moroes’ Dinner Party effect now increases the damage and attack speed of nearby dinner guests by 50% (was 100%).
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Return to Karazhan: Upper
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Shade of Medivh
- Flame Wreath damage reduced by 30%.
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Shade of Medivh
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Affixes
4 Likes
Interrupting Dinner Bell wont help tanks not getting one shot by the boss itself. The adds spawn to close to eachother and have too much hp.
1 Like
That doesn’t seem to solve a lot of issues. Lower Kara feels as if it’s 5 levels higher than compatible dungeons if not more.
In upper Kara Medivh seems to hit like a truck. In general scaling also seems way off, but not as bad as lower. Abilities hit way harder than comparison with other dungeons.
The shield on 2nd boss in Iron Docks needs doubling, as very easy to break by dots or incidental cleave. Or possibly change so only direct damage triggers.
Similar issue with fear on 1st boss in Iron Docks, it can be triggered by normal damage rotation. Am I supposed to stop DPS 15 seconds beforehand?
These sorts of mechanics greatly punish particular classes. I can’t turn frozen orb off after it goes. DoTs can’t be turned off.
DoT tick from Skylord Tovra lightning zones does far too much damage. Even with perfect play avoiding all possible I’ve died plenty of times on this boss. Very overtuned.
I’d reduce dreadlord casting vampiric claws as they seem to cast it way too often. Blood shield change is good.
The mob in the fire room on upper Kara does insane damage when he teleports to you. Felt like at 20 Fortified instead of a mid 10s Tyrannical.
1 Like
Agreed, let the people who mess up die and not bother the rest of us.
I am experienced enough to know that +2 dungeons should not be punishing as +10 or 15. And I’ve done both +2 and +20 in the past, and numerous 16-19’s. And it’s nonsense when a +2 feels harder than much higher keys. And you know it as well
I disagree with you about the need of voice chat and a pre-made. I timed my 1st Lower Karazhan yesterday. Compared to my previous tries i can say a few things. Yes Lower Karazhan and Grimrail depot are harder than the rest of the dungeons and they need a bit of tuning. But that does not mean they are imposible to do without a premade with a voice chat.
Lower Kara is heavily healer dependant. Which means healer focusing on dmg is NOT a priority. Two of the bosses and a few of the trash packs hit really hard the tank. Dead tank dead group. Also the dd doing high dmg, knowing the mechanics and using TW is a important. For example i did a lot of tries under level 10 where on Maiden people didn’t know how to remove the stun or which mobs to cc on Moroes. Lower Karazhan is an old dungeon. Reading the journal is easy ask the guild/community/forums for advice. If that is not enough go watch some video guide.
I agree with you. The mobs have to much hp.
Grimrail can be done with 200 ilvl and kara u need 400. This is so unbalanced. my 15 key got destroyed to a 10 cause people jsut dont know what to do. Get hit by a coin and u get almost 1 shot. and that in a tyrannical week. The mobs in karazhan require more tacts and interrupts then a 25 man raid boss.
its fun and all but these arent dungeons that are released from start expansion. People who didnt play the expansion with kara in it dont know anything and just steamroll in it. Thinking they can do it without knowing tacts.
They all say they know tacts cause they dont want to get kicked out of the group. And in the run itself u are the 1 getting screwed. So im stuck with a kara key cause i cant trade it cause i am not reaching end of dungeon!
Sweet release
Let’s assume blizzard would introduce an 1-2 boss mini dungeon taking 10 minutes but is some mage tower hard stuff were no one should slack. I would totally agree on every point.
But Kara is more like an story dungeon with clear time of 40 min. Content should also respect players limited time
I want to thank you for listening to the community 
give any dev a hug
2 Likes
I am glad this is being removed in this reset. Because Lower Kara is not only hard in Tyranical week but also in Fortified and as you said people don’t know mechanics and that makes the work for the healer hell.
Also high dmg is needed because some mobs and abilities have to much hp. So nerfing the shield of the Maiden is a good start but more nerfs are needed.
Also i notice quite often how the dd want to just do dmg and ignore the mechanics which will not work. There are 7 mobs to which if you don’t turn your back you are worthless as dd then.
I also agree with you about a lot of people never playing the wings before. So lying about them and destroying the key is the norm as you said.
It needs more fixes than this, Kara isnt just overtuned, its broken. I cant believe this was even released to live. Tried to do a 15 lower Kara yesterday, it went great up until Moroes. The lady that casts Smite, she hit me for 71k dmg, oneshot me and our lock and basicly our whole group. We had no wipes up until that point, and after wiping around 5-6 times on Moroes with multiple different tactics, our group disbanded. Nerfing Dinner Party by 50% wont stop her from oneshotting people. And the cast time on Smite is too fast, we wont have enough interupts for her even though we had a Warrior aswell. Whole of lower Kara is just broken and needs fix immediately, on first boss many tanks die to the last mob who spawns adds. And in upper Kara, I have to mention, the Fel Draenei before the chess room, are too strong, even if I soak the Fel bombs, the Fel bombs still oneshot me. Were these dungeons even tested before they were released to live?? The higher key you have, the more broken the scaling goes, I refuse to believe anyone tested this on a key over 10+.
I ran both lower and upper Karazhan this week on ~13
Lower - way too much trash, we beat Maiden with zerg tactic before second repentance. Not sure if she is beatable in bigger keys on tyranical without some immunities in group. Reminds me of the 2nd boss in Spires where zerg tactic was the best one in S1. We wiped on attumen several times only because healer didn’t know what to do with debuff. Moroes was easy once we figured the CC and dealt with 1 add at a time.
Upper - several wipes due to flame rings, they are very punishing indeed. Other deaths were due to playing bad, not overtune in my opinion. Maybe some fights won’t be healable with Grievous, we will see soon enough.
Here some suggestions for your team on fortified:
Opera is okish if you don’t have a noob who soaks everything before the cast goes off.
Attumen
Feedback on what could be improved at attumen in random noob groups.
let the guy who has the ghost YELL something so the heal can just tell from the shout who has to be despelled. Heals always wipe this boss.
It would be easier to tell the heal. “Just look at who is yelling some bs and despell”.
Trash
possible solutions to ez the dungeon
- tune up the the % you receive from trash
- delete every stupid stun or overpowerd fire lands ability to make mass pull easier
(the frontal stun is hard to see as a tank from trash towards maiden) - horses charge and stomp tuning to make mass pulls easier
- drastic approach - delete trash from the dungeon.
It should be easy to implement my suggestions so please do it. I got KSM already and don’t bother to go into kara any longer. But for new players this madness should be tuned. Also kara is all about the bosses and the atmosphere. I don’t think the goal is to et every new play hate karazhan that much 
One would think this should be the goal about anything in this game but somehow this gets lost in the quaqmire of blaming people they want all handed to them on a platter if they question anything about difficulty, even if its there to annoy rather than test skill.
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