It would had to be even stronger if it didnt get casted 10 times in a row… Like… any other class? That’s what “burst” means.
And stormstrike hit is pretty strong compared to what exactly? Do you know how much damage a rogue deals with envenom? Or a warlock with chaos bolt?
Yes actually.
They are not the same thing.
Nor they should be.
And your definition of burst is wrong.
You can have burst by doing lots of little damage at once, or by one big hit, not all classes should behave the same.
Also hyperbole statements like 10 times should be avoided because that’s just straight bs.
Well as in burst i mean “mashing bashing or smashing in a —short— time”
Since abilities have gcd, to be able to deliver mashing bashing or smashing in a —short— time those numbers have to be big.
My statement isnt hyperbolic. Go to a target dummy, pop bl and ascendance count how many times you hit stormstrike in 12 seconds. If its not gonna be 10 i’ll be frost shocked.
No one wants classes to be same. But diversity shouldnt mean some of the specs shouldnt have burst or survivability of any kind.
If you mean how much damage you can do in a single second than yes you need a hard hitting ability for it to work, if you mean in a cd, than all that matters is how much damage you can do in a short while with all your abilities up.
Setting up enhancement burst might not be instant, but you can do it, it does have some burst, not the best in the world but it does have it.
So my solution would be to add back earth shock, as an ability that is dependant on something to work, like after a few abilities you can use shock for some burst damage, or things like that, but i want the stormstrike reset.
in legion this ability was hitting for really a lot, in bfa it’s been shifted more to lava lash, but i preferred the legion iteration personally.
Ok i’ll break it down for you.
It’s not about how you “feel” about the class. There are things that stands between enhancement and burst damage. Here are some of them.
if it was a dot, instead of the horrible thing described above it would still deal it’s damage. While it cant be considered burst, it would be a muuch better damage source.
1 more bad thing them being a buff. When you get cc’ed or can’t get to the target. Dots do their job or shocks wait their cooldown for their next burst. But YOU loose time on your 16 seconds buff. You most likely gotta cast them again when you leave cc or kited. Which becomes a wasted gcd. Just totally wasted 3 seconds that doesn’t help you or your team in any way.
You have to be on the target in the melee range and connect all your white hit to be able to milk these abilities to the fullest. Which is not the issue for any of other 34509 specs in the game.
If this ability really was on 8-10 seconds cd. The damage you see on damage meters -on the stormstrike tab- would have to be condenced into 5-6 stormstrike hit. Which would make it hit HARD not less. On the other hand since this ability also inflicts flametongue / frostbrand, casting less of this ability would mean it would share less with them so that damage as well would have to be again condenced into stormstrike or shocks we want so much.
Lets see how lucky you gotta be. With any class, if you dont crit during your burst, you just get sad move on with your life and wait for the next roll. But YOU dont have a finisher of any sort. Your understanding of “burst” consists of 4-5 or more stormstrike hit on top of each other which by nature of spec also share it’s damage with flametongue and frostbrand damage.
When a rogue with %20 crit chance hits envenom he crits or just doesn’t end of story. -To be able to hit as much as envenom. You need like 3-4 stormstrike hits. What is the chance of all of them landing a crit with %20 crit chance? What is chance of all those frostbrand and flametongue hits to be crit? What is the chance of windfury proc during those attacks? What is the chance of all wf attacks critting? None! I know you don’t like “hyperbolic statements”. Just go do your math tell us if its 1 in a million or billion.
You wont get all crit. You wont get all hit. NEVER. You got normalized!!! This is what opposite of “burst” is. You damage is fragmanted so much, with every hit, %20 of it will crit and %80 of it wont. You will never see a true crit like a rog or warlock or mage or druid or whatever. You should do crappy damage for a while and you should do so much after that. You know how much incinirate hits? Nothing. Chaos bolt? So much.
You always hit stormstrike. When you crit, it’s mediocre. When you don’t, it’s mediocre. This is why that dude says remove stormbringer.
And than you just say “eeehh enhancement has burst not best but its there” Yes when you proc and crit everything you got with a %0.000001 chance once a week, you do half of a warlock’s burst.
Oh hell no - I hate the Ascendance gameplay, and actually kinda like Feral Lunge (+it’s iconic Rehgar ability from HotS). If anything, Ascendance should be baseline “burst” CD and not a talented one.
If we’re talking a rework type of enha tho - why are we melee dps tho?
Shamans are mace wearing, shield bearing mail hybrids. We can heal to some extend, we could tank in the past to some extend, we can deal high dmg spikes (windfury) to some extend and we could buff our allies.
Bring Enhantment to be a hybrid tank spec - with whole fantasy of droping windfury totem for meele, self-healing increasing enemy agro, higher than average tank dps due to windfury procs (situational) and so on.
Instead of having rows of talents in choosing between 3 dps talents, let us choose between tank / dps / buff talents. Varied gameplay, and unique enough. Also, who wouldn’t want that Windfury totem in their group, eh?
If Rogues can have their shroud, give us back our totems.
we don’t have burst anymore with the removal of ride the lightning and doomwinds.
now all that is left is press stormstirke which adds a tiny bit of flametongue dmg on it.
burst is something that happens in maybe 5 seconds. In 5 secodns, if lucky I get 3 stormstrikes, which lets say, uber lucky crits, a total of 100k dmg.
a chaosbolt crits for 130k in 1.5 seconds
rogue burst you for 200k+ dmg in 5 seconds, fat envenom, passive poisons and mutilates
maybe another example would be dh, because it also spams his main ability in metaform, but it is less luck dependent, yes the sole ability does more dmg AND ignores armor as well
Which is why i liked doomwinds, and legion enhancement more in general, more burst damage, same sustained damage, more emphasis on stormstrike rather than lava lash.
I remember doing some pretty insane bursts of damage last exp on this spec, with ascendance and everything.
Although ascendance should be baseline.
Maybe they could change flametongue and frostbrand back as buffs to the weapons again, so you don’t have to constantly recast them, add earth shock bring back doomwinds, for the next expansion and keep the rest the same, this would help burst damage, and keep the feeling of the class relatively the same.
There is one thing that is missed in this chat though, the point of chaos bolt etc doing so much damage is exactly because you don’t do much with other abilities.
So you either get big burst of damage frequently but not for long like in destro lock, you get constant damage, but not many burst spikes, like for enhancement, or you get immense burst for a short while and do nothing for the rest of the time, like legion havoc with chaos blades, which i did not like at all personally.
I think legion enhancement was the perfect balance in terms of burst and sustained, you could get some pretty good burst, but you also did not get immense dips in damage, unless you were unbelievably unlucky with procs.
Yes i want, i want to feel like supporting dps, not pure, and even if that, what’s problem do thing like in wotlk whne u can setup all 4 totems casts in one global cd? or make using totems gcd only for 0.5s insteand of 1.5, too hard to think about it?
I have to agree with flametongue and frostbrand. Its so annoying to use.
You know what now that i thought about it a bit more, the last bit i said in my previous post, i think that’s a really good idea, i just said it as it came to mind but thinking about it a bit more, it might be really nice, make frostbrand and flametongue like before, basically weapon buffs, and add back earth shoc. I think that would be a very good start.
This way you wouldn’t need to constantly reapply your “dots” which isn’t really fun, it’s a little disruptive, it doesn;t feel like a core part of the rotation, and it can be quite annoying to have to reapply them while you have a stormstrike proc, which you could lose, and lose damage as a result, so the solution is just to remove the problem entirely, this would also free up space for some more interesting abilities.
Keep windfury as it is though, just flametongue and frostbrand.
The buffs should also persist through death, and make them work like an enchant, but one that doesn’t take up a slot, like dk runes.
Instead of Hailstorm we could get Demon Blades talent from DH …
Also DH Demonic talent is exactly what we need for our Ascendance (or that legion legendary) …
Totems from each element back (1 per element)
2 handed windfury
And improved healing would do it for me as enhancement.
I liked searing tote back but placeable so I can ping around pillars and choose where I kite around.
2h wf can stay in classic. I don’t need more rng garbage in this class.
dual wield shaman was more than fine from woltk to legion. In legion they utterly destroyed my beloved spec.
The maelstrom resource was the worst that happened to shamans followed by stormstrike reset.
Lava lash is completely useless at the moment as well. Wish we could go back to mana as a resource are more cd based with the old totems and cc/utility
What’s the point of dual wield when I’m just waiting for GCD?
It’s not as though they are unable to balance for two-handers, I mean Pally, Warrior, DK and Hunter all have 2-hander specs.
Imo the flavour has been lost. Elitist Jerks pushed for dual-wield in Cata and zombies jumped on the hype train and can’t think outside of that box even though the game has changed since Cataclysm. That was when windfury operated differently and required dual wield to trigger more frequently. It’s totally different now. The incoherent blur of numbers is not satisfying. CGD should be a meaningful choice, not a faceroll.
Imo I’d like to see three viable enhancement setups, all baseline and able to switch in combat based on circumstances. Two-handers for high-risk high-reward, 1+shield for defensive gameplay and tactical support situations and dual wield for those that just want to be relentless (bland) rottweilers.
How they could do it would be to alter lightning shield (which should also be baseline) based on what weapons are equipped…
Atm we’re funnelled into one type of bland gameplay which has killed enhancement PVP. We need more situational variability.
This would give the spec more flavour/fantasy as the versatile ‘enhanced’ fighter.
dude, wind fury procced lower on 2h because of weapon speed.
WF still procs on 2h weapons but you cannot use Stormstrike anymore, thats pretty much all they changed.
In classic you also didn’t use much SS because you insta oom
also dual wield is not waiting for the gcd? whatever that means.
2h enh was just waiting for autoattacks with 20% chance on tripple attack
I am all for buffing wf to base dmg of 5 stacks forceful winds, even higher. Also more importantly give me back the animation.
It is sad that this iconic ability is now just some low passiv dmg that is not scary our noticable.
For balance issues, doomwinds was the perfect way to balance passiv WF and make it a little active. Doomwinds (unnerfed) + old animation would have been super fun
RIP
Yes exactly this for resto shaman. Remove healing rain I hated it the moment they introduced that horrible spell. I dont find it fitting in shaman playstyle at all for resto, Give me earth shield back, giving it to ele and enh doesnt make any sense at all to me. Rather have it for resto only and allow talents to alter the balance shifting to either tank healing with empowered earth shield or a build that allows us to utilize totems in order to boost our raid healing. Rather than some lame healing rain spell, I want a redesign that requires more totem usage to amplify healing.
You know what would be a very nice change though, make flametongue and frostbrand buffs again, with hailstorm baseline, that do not fade after death, and with the new slots you could re implement earth shock as a burst damage option with a requirement, like do x and you can use a empowered earth shock, something like that.
Nobody really cares about those 2 buffs anyway, the actually can feel a bit disruptive when you have a hot hand or stormstrike proc chain and you have to reapply it, like are you serious bro? In pvp it also doesn’t feel good to reapply.
Why tho? Don’t make it baseline - make it into a talent.
“Allows to use 2h maces and axes. 20% chance to trigger 3x hit.”
Bam, there. Done, now put it in a row that makes most sense balance wise. I’d say replace “Forcefull Winds” with it, let’s call “Might of the wind” or w/e.
Then it’s up to the player how one wants to play the spec, d-wield or 2h, beside that nothing much changes. It has as much RNG as it had before.
I’d change the Earth Shield on Enh too - make it to reduce damage taken by 10% and increase healing by 10% (like currently), each consuming stack. 9 stacks as current.
Make Enh buffs, a buffs again. It’s just a chore having to use WA’s to keep track of them, and refreshing them with GCD’s…
enhancer was absolutely fine in wotlk (could have used a little better def)
dual wield works also well with windfury, at least it did in woltk and also in legion (with doomwinds)
doomwinds (unnerfed) was actually a pretty cool skill that made windfury relevant and not permanently insta gib threatening
What enhance really needs is:
-feral spirits returned to former glory (heal, stun, jump, freedom)
-Astral garbage being 1min cd, dispell debuffs and usable while stunned
-make healing surge cost 50 maelstrom, be instant and heal for 100% more, prevents spamming and frees the rotation. Or give us the old mealstrom proc as the maelstrom resource might be too easy to fill
-ascendance can either die or become baseline
-remove stormstrike reset and make it 6s cd + hit harder (nature dmg + mastery)
-give back frostshock + frozen power talent
-give back support totems (wf, spell power whatever)
-baseline grounding
-base line elemental shields (earth for def, lightning for off, water for whatever)
and lose the stack garbage as it is just triggering to constantly renewing that garbage
flametongue can either stay or become a passive buff again. if it becomes passive we need earth shock back
also favorable would be if stormstrike gets a debuff back
stacking mechanic for big hit lavalash would be great if it is linked to auto stacking flame shock buff (see lava shock), need flame shock back too then, which is not a bad idea
so all in all it will never happen even with unpruning. I highly doubt the will unprune half of enhancer kit that we lost over the last decade
RIP enhance