where in sylvanas very specifically says she will never stop fighting for the forsaken’s right to live in lordearon even while the alliance tries to denounce the claims of its foundation as a rightful kingdom, the whole zone of silverpine forest in cata shows that sylvanas cares but 4 expansions later suddenly she doesnt, even when during this time she apparently was working with the jailer she still cared. i wish blizz could write the horde without villainizing them
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The quest is called Lordaeron.
And is the cornerstone behind the entire revamped playable experience for the Forsaken faction in cataclysm.
It was also one of the major retcons Blizzard had to do in order to have the current Sylvanas character that they are using for SL.
A shame really, as said starting experience and insight to a more proactive Forsaken mindset, was one of the best bits of the updated questing experience in Cataclysm (followed probably by Stonetalon, and Southern Barrens).
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It’s almost as if she lied…
Come on, we have seen her pov multiple times. There is actual evidence of the authors either willfully misleading us regarding her intentions or straight-out retconing. But saying that she wants the best for her people means nothing. Thinking it does.
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Sylvanas??
Say it ain’t so.
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Well, given the context of said sentence, the quests that followed, and even inner monologues she had in the books,…yeah, those bits seemed honest enough. Until BfA retcons, that is.
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It’s not important how honest the sentences seemed. They could still have been lies. You have a point with her internal monologues, but that’s not the point Unholydeath made. His argument is lacking, even if his conclusion might be right.
Well Sylvanas’ goal at this point in time was to create a strong meatshield of soldiers and fortifications to protect her from death.
The Forsaken and Lordaeron were a tool for that.
What’s hard to understand here, exactly? Sylvanas put up the facade that she was a “hero” for the people of Lordaeron, so that the Forsaken would follow her dutifully.
You mean to tell me that a leader lied to their people??? NOOOO, I can’t believe it!
You might want to have a look at some irl countries.
I still think it’s a valid concern/issue. True, the quest could’ve been a lie if taken out of context and judged in a vacuum.
But in the context where it was delivered, as well as the stuff that prefaced and followed it, it didn’t seem to be one.
And I do think that using it to exemplify the aspects that were discarded/wasted regarding her character, is a somewhat valid approach.
If we can’t use ingame material to make our points, then what else are we to use?
See, this was retconned. Because the latest information was about her working for the Jailer. Why would she fear “hell” if she was already working for Satan?
That given the quests that followed, as well as the complementary material regarding regarding the character, her voiced speech there seemed to be 100% honest.
You can’t put on a “facade” that goes as deep as you masking even your internal monologues.
Let alone the fact that half her actions at that time wouldn’t make sense given her current retconned background.
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While not related to exactly Sylvanas, it’s possible that we have another “Garrosh” case here. There was an interview with Afrasiabi. But we got another version. (Metzen version of Garrosh? 
)
copy-pasted from another thread
Alex Afrasiabi to WoW Insider in November 2014, about Garrosh in Stonetalon:
https://www.engadget.com/2014-11-11-alex-afrasiabi-on-warlords-garrosh-and-alternate-azeroth.html
So Garrosh was yours, huh? From beginning to end?
Not quite from beginning to end.
Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there …
He was.
He was? Tell us about that – why he had that shift.
Miscommunication.
So Stonetalon …
Me.
You did Stonetalon?
I did Stonetalon. I didn’t stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn’t – not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing – and that was my fault. Because when you’re doing, when you’re trying – because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.
You had so much to do.
We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there’s an interesting tidbit for you.
gl hf
“Seem” only means that they made her sell her act convincingly in the context, not that it wasn’t an act. The Blizzard of today says it was a lie. “It seemed to be true at the time” doesn’t contradict that.
Doubt it, as it was a characterisation that was carried forth all the way up to Before the Storm (with certain iterations that still kept her with the same overarching motives).
And contrary to Stonetalon, the story continues through several different zones. Starting in Tirisfal, crossing Silverpine, and ending at the Thoradin Wall.
That’s what I meant with at this point in time.
In the context of when this dialogue was written its not like Sylvanas cared about the Forsaken or Lordaeron other than as tools
Oh, and to that… If you work for Satan and you fail him, where might you end up?
Was a polite way of delivering my point without dealing in absolutes.
But yeah, the whole thing went a tad beyond some particularly elaborate ruse.
Specially when it was set in the context of her randomly caring for Forsaken fallen soldiers in Cataclysm, fearing for their safety due to Garrosh shenanigans in MoP, looking for means to preserve them as a race in Legion, or acknowledging her affection towards them and the home she shared with them, just before BFA started.
Not really:
Honestly? Take out the weird interpretations people make out of some wording in Edge of Night and the character remains fairly consistent with her ingame actions throughout her entire lifetime (ranging from Classic to BfA).
Yeah, charitable acts, and public outrage on behalf of others can never be cynical calculation…
Not if you accompany it with a dive into her brain that highlights how she indeed believes such. As well as random acts that go against your goals or seem unnecessary to these supposed “ulterior motives”.
Yes. Like I said from the start, if Unholy was talking about her point of view chapters he would have a point. Talking about what she said, he doesn’t. I told you three times now, be done with it. Because I am.
I’m more prone to believe what she thinks in Edge of Night over what she does to keep appearances. Nothing new here
And how prone are you to believe what she thinks later on? Things that align with these actions in a way that goes beyond what dubious interpretation for the phrase “bulwark against whatever” we might have?
The way I see it, the point stands for as long as the quest is used as a highlight of a bigger picture that goes beyond an interpretation of that quest as standalone factor.
And I think that seeing it differently is acting disingenuous.
Because any act, when judged in a vacuum, can be subject to a wide range of interpretations that may not be in any way related to the context of it.
And this goes for any agent, ranging from Sylvanas Windrunner, to Anduin Wrynn.
But yeah, this is my opinion and this is going in circles. Leaving it too.