Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the 197 ilvl gear from random bgs? Won’t rated pvp give higher ilvl gear?
I’m personally not so concerned about “values of an MMO”.
Like I said, the issue I personally had was that the system was, practically speaking, pretty dysfunctional.
It doesn’t really level the playing field, it just adds layers of complexity that the game aims to hide and obfuscate.
hi how are you all doing today
1 Like
Brother man when do you think mythic+ opens? I’ll tell you when, 2 weeks after launch, same goes for raid and ranked pvp. Ofcourse it had to be timegated, otherwise it would have been pre-raid BiS.
1 Like
But bg gear 197 ilvl is timegated with 7 weeks time gate. Do you get it? There is no single reason to play bg because when you unlock 7th level upgrade you can get gear from every other source. I was hyped that BGs are back and I can spam them with friends but instead I will farm dungeons before playing arenas.
mmorpgs are not about pvp
As a former Eve/DaoC player let me just offer this rebuttal.
No.
And yes spreadsheet pvp best pvp.
I am not a very big PvP player but this has my +1
PvP is something I like, but not something I put a huge focus on. That being said I think it’s riduculous that Blizzard has this huge problem with PvPers having their own fair path of progression.
3 Likes
Thank you brother
And i thought a MMORPG based around character and gear progression was supposed to work that way 
1 Like
Yes yes, I’ve heard that line a thousand times. Hence this thread:
THIS JUST IN!
Game that is primarily PvE has PvE content!
Blizzard did away with the need for PvE gear in Legion by making everyone roughly equal. And what did the PvPers do? They whined and moaned that they wanted PvP gear to matter. What they actually meant was they like being over-geared and making noob-paste when someone without good gear steps into PvP.
Legion was, hands down, the best expansion for PvP to rely on skill, because everyone had equal stats. Goes to show that frankly, the PvP community don’t care about the skill aspect, they simply want to outgear the noobs.
youre honor level 6 dude… what would you know about (legion) pvp? why do pve players keep replying in pvp threads?
unless you too are one of those players with invisible hidden achievements
atleast make a level 10 classic char so nobody can check if youre legit like the pros do
4 Likes
I miss good old days when we only had honor and conquest gear with only 1 ilvl. This new system with upgrading ilvl is just bad. It pushes casual pvp players away from game.
Sure, I don’t PvP much. At least I don’t try to hide it.
But Legion PvP was some of the most fun PvP I had. I didn’t do much of it, as I don’t enjoy it that much, but I still enjoyed it more than any PvP before or since.
And that was because of the equalised stats. It was all down to how you played and class composition. No more ‘there’s literally nothing I can do because their gear is far better than mine’. It was ‘darn, I got outplayed there’.
I tried a couple of BGs recently before the pre-patch and let me tell you, it was awful. Folks with 100k+ more health than I am just walking up to me and nuking me into oblivion. Literally nothing I could do because the gear disparity was so huge. My gear isn’t terrible, but it isn’t great either.
The average ilevel of the team makes more of a difference than pretty much anything else. If the ilevels are close then that’s when skill matters.
The more I think about it, the more I realise the twink community is actually a representation of the PvP community at large. See, twinks used to be everywhere in lower level BGs back in the day. The biggest factor about which low level BG would win is who had more twinks. Twinks used to claim they mostly loved to fight other twinks, it wasn’t about pwning noobz.
So Blizzard took this advice on board and made BGs give XP, with the option to turn XP off but that puts you in a separate queue for XP off only. Twinks got what they claimed their wanted, BGs full of twinks so they could fight the other twinks.
Turned out that wasn’t the case. The PvP twink community died overnight. Constant complaints about the queues for XP off BGs taking hours at a time. Turns out twinkers just LOVED making noob giblets with the normies with regular gear.
And that’s exactly what happened with Legion. Blizzard leveled the playing field, and the PvPers HATED it. Because no longer could you stand on your ivory tower with your 2200+ gear and kill noobz with a mere glance. You actually had to work for it. Gear was no longer a deciding factor, skill was.
It was the best thing they’ve ever done to make PvE gear not an automatic advantage in PvP: because gear gave very little advantage. A 1% stat increase for 10 ilevels.
Just admit it. PvPers just want to splat people with lower gear than them. Why else do they keep complaining about the ilevel of Mythic Raid and Mythic +15 gear?
first of all gear is supposed to matter, thats part of the rpg gerne - id argue for rated content there should be a equal playing field - but for casual pvp gear should DEFINITELY matter why else bother to get any in the first place… we might as well make gear not matter for pve too then
the problem however isnt and never has been the pvpers whining about gear its the pve community that whined about being forced to pvp to stay “competitive” because conquest gear was always around raid level
so what did blizzard do? they massively reduced the ilvl of honor AND conquest gear and made it pointless to even get because of the introduction of mythic+ and how easy it was to get gear that way
currently people who hardly pvp are stronger than dedicated pvp players because of their pve gear, so youre forced to do pve if you want to be able to kill them
all pvpers want is to not be forced to do pve or have some ridiculous grind to get gear
its really that simple
1 Like
Gotta love people such as you. People who almost never PvP, yet for some reason know exactly what PvP players want by literally making stuff up. Perhabs you should just stick to roleplaying.
1 Like
Except here’s the thing.
In PvE, you are facing NPCs that have preset stats. In order to be able to get past the enrage timers and/or healer mana, you need enough DPS. Sure, skill in how to play your class certainly helps, as well as raid mechanics so you don’t die or get stunned/knocked back and lose DPS, but a lot of your DPS comes from your gear. If you have bad gear and play optimally compared to good gear and play fairly optimally, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the second will do better.
In PvP, unless it’s AV, the only opposition are the enemy players. Therefore the only stats you need to worry about are those of the enemy players. And if the enemy players have way better gear, you’re complete deadweight.
If you’re supposed to get PvP gear from PvP, then how are you supposed to get the gear if you’re constantly dying because you have half the HP of the opposition and cause your team to lose because it’s essentially a 9v10? The only time PvP is even vaguely fair is during the first couple of weeks of a new expansion because everyone has the same quality of gear.
Once you get out of that zone, the early birds will have a constant advantage. Starting out in PvP is an utter meat grinder that I doubt anyone finds fun.
Therefore, eliminating gear in PvP solves the problem. No need to farm trinket X because it has a super good on use effect, or having to do Mythic +20 to get the best ilevel gear. The only things different between you and the enemy are your talents and your skill.
That would entirely eliminate the whining from the PvP community about why they need to PvE to keep competitive in PvP. The ‘need’ to do PvE because of the gear problem, so eliminating gear from the equation eliminates the problem.
TL:DR comparing the need for gear in PvP to the need for gear in PvE is dumb. PvE needs gear in order to compete with the stats of the NPCs. The only reason you need gear in PvP is because the other team has better gear. Remove the gear, no gear needed for PvP, only talents and skill.
1 Like
You don’t need to play PvP to see how vocal the PvP community is about the problem.
Legion fixed it and they still complained because then they didn’t have the ability to roflstomp the noobz.
PvP players also compl;aint aboud templates because there was no stat customisation but this could be resolved. Instead it was scrapped
I agree, having high crit when you preferred high haste was an issue. A point buy system would have been great for this. You have X number of secondary stat points, distribute them how you see fit within limits.