A profile website for the Waterlords!


:+1: +1 :wink:

(Aerandul) #22

The AA was the first and is relatively lucky, in that both the website name and the IC organisation name can be aligned without sounding weird. Other versions thaht have spun off in the past have gone a different route - the Laurelin Archives, for example, is named for the server (Laurelin, LotRO), but the group running it is “The Grey Repository”.

In a similar vein, whilst “The Hydraxian Archives” is fine for a site name, the group running it IC probably can’t be feasibly tied to the Hydraxian Waterlords without sounding a bit weird - but they can pick any name they like really. I’ve already suggested a few ideas to the team, mostly related to the Kirin Tor!


Hydraxian Vault sounds good.


Must there be a group that runs it IC? I have never treated the Argent Archives as an IC thing.


In the days of old people like Alabast treated it as a sorta kinda IC thing, obviously not the character records etc., but the Argent Post was an actual publication ran by some of the people behind the Argent Archives, and they’d actually go around Stormwind giving out their “newspaper” with some of the headlines on their website.


The Argent Archives is a psuedo in character thing, that supposedly exists within the World (of Warcraft). The archives themselves are situated in Ironforge, and that is where all the ‘documents’ from the archives site should be.

And of course, the different newspapers. The Neutral-aligned Argent Post, and the faction specific newspapers, and also of course the character created newspapers that occasionally pop up.


Wait, what? So, if you put a description of your criminal guild or secret organization in there, because you want to inform players of your existence… you are putting it out there in character, and every character could have read about it? That sounds like a horrible idea, honestly.


From the AA about page itself:

The website is in some ways a representation of the The Argent Archives in Ironforge, though it is up to each user to decide what information is only on the site for OOC purposes, and what is actually written in the Archives in-character. Try to accomodate for this during roleplay and avoid invading people’s privacy.

Pseudo in-character. It’s just a sort of immersion setting thing, not that anybody actually has access to the archives unless they’re archives staff :wink:


…why have it be an ic thing at all, really? I’m not sure what that adds to the RP, except confusion from people like me?

“Pseudo-ic” sounds like an invitation for ic-ooc-confusion to me.


The Argent Archives exist within the world, in Ironforge, from way back in the day when the Argent Archives staff members were more involved in the events of Argent Dawn and representing the Archives. We are sadly not as involved anymore.

The setting that the Archives provide helps to differ it from an allknowing and entirely out of character wikipedia site. This gives you an opportunity to flavour the text as if someone wrote the text about your character for an archive entry to be stored within the great halls of the Archives.

That said, as the quoted post mentions:

The manner of which you write about your criminal guild is entirely up to you, and some might prefer to write it as if it was an archive entry with incomplete in character accounts as if found in the archives. And others might, at their own discretion, prefer to write it entirely more from an out of character perspective.

It’s become a very versatile tool over the years for sharing both out of character information, as well as in character information.

Though still, I have found that it is common knowledge that one should not use information from the archives in character as this is considered rather invasive from a roleplay perspective. And either way, why would the staff let just anyone wander in to read archived sensitive texts. :smiley:


I’ve never heard it causing any IC issues whatsoever in more than a decade of using it myself, to be fair. I’ve never even heard of people claiming to have accessed the Archives IC.


But that’s really what I would be looking for. People can flavour their text all they want, after marking it as in character, but I would like the default assumption te be that it is ooc, until mentioned otherwise. When I put my character/guild description, or even an ic-post about my characters’ adventures in there I really would never ever want there to be an assumption that it is in some archive out there in the world. I don’t really care if it is “bad form” to use the info, or that it would be “restricted”, as long as someone in theory has access to it, it really… well, breaks my immersion.

The idea that the stuff that’s put in there is all in some Ironforge Archive doesn’t make any sense to me whatsoever. And I really don’t care about the “what people in Ironforge might know”-version of a Horde guild description, I want a place where I can look up their complete concept.

I don’t care if AD had that for centuries, this is a new project, so I would hope that things like this aren’t set in stone for a new server with a new community and are actually up for discussion.

And it wouldn’t have to be one particular thing ic to do that. I can just preface my newspaper-entry on the ooc-site with “This newspaper is available in Stormwind and Ironforge to everyone for 15 copper” and it makes much more sense to me, and I can share my ooc-Information anyway, without remarking on some “pseudo-ic”-assumption.

This is all just my opinion, of course, and I guess in function there is no difference whatsoever, but I personally just really hate mixing up ic and ooc in the very concept of the thing. I would prefer any soulless Wiki to that, really.

And since this is a new server “it has always been this way” just isn’t an argument I can see any value in.


What was usually taken as IC were things such as the news on the frontpage, which would historically also be published in a physical newspaper sold in the major cities by actual characters. I think you’re overreacting to something that has never been an issue.

Again, I have heard of people claiming to have read character information “in the Archives”. I’ve only ever seen it used as a crutch when people making guilds make it apparent in their pages that others can assume they know how to look for them if they want to contact them IC.


Again, I don’t care about the question if it happened, I care about the concept of the thing. If it never happened, it makes it just even more senseless to claim that it has to exist ic somewhere. You don’t need to claim that it is archived in Ironforge to see the news on the front page as the state of RP at the moment.

And I’m not overreacting, I am explaining my position on the topic, and why I would prefer to see a ooc default assumption.


It’s been explained to you that it doesn’t have to exist somewhere, it’s at the discretion of people creating content in the Argent Archives. It’s even stated in the Argent Archives website. The default position is that no, unless you stated that the information posted by people can be used IC, people can’t just use that information IC.


Now that’s just needlessly confusing. “The site is a representation of ic documents, but the default assumption is that the documents here are not part of that document”. Do you really see no conceptual problem here?


From the website:

The Main Goal of the Argent Archives Webportal is to tie the Argent Dawn community together. One visit to the portal should be enough to understand what is currently happening in the realm. It is a place where players can present their characters, guilds and role-play experiences (stories, screens, artswork etc.) and at the same time check current news, plan events, read stories and see others’ work. Enjoy!

And later below:

The website is in some ways a representation of the Archives in Ironforge, though it is up to each character to decide what information is only on the site for OOC purposes, and what is actually written in the Archives in game. Try to accomodate for this during roleplay and avoid invading people’s privacy.


…I know. It was posted before. I have no clue how that relates in any way to my my general objection to

I am perfectly happy with the mission statement, I am not happy with the idea that this place where players present their stuff is in some vague way related to a specific ic institution. And I can’t see how any utility or even flair would be lost just by taking that half-sentence and the idea behind it out. That’s all I am commenting on.


It’s not related in some vague way though. The Argent Archives is an actual in-game RP guild that tries to keep a record of Alliance citizens in a pretty laid-back, voluntary fashion. If you want to be in the IC Archives, you can by saying that you are, if not, you’re not.

It’s also never been particularly present when it comes to the mission, it always seemed like a bit of IC lore about the Archives to help people wanting to use them as an IC thing. They can be ignored if not.


And you can’t have that without making the whole profile page about it?