This thread was made to serve as a hub for this particular discussion, as it was pushing some guild advertisement threads off-topic.
A³ - Across All Azeroth - is a roleplaying community made up of many different guilds, many of which were once a part of the PCU. For this reason, there has been some conversation about who runs A³, which guilds are a part of A³ and how A³ is different from the PCU. Gruggosh has given some answers here:
Nevertheless, there seem to be some people who view this is as little more than a rebranding attempt and there are other people who seem to believe that certain (ex-)members of the PCU should be held accountable for their alleged behaviour, no matter what label they currently wear.
That’s why I made this thread, as a place where such a discussion can be had without derailing A³ guild advertisement threads or bumping Lilynore’s ridiculous troll thread.
As somebody who’s fairly new to the server’s environment, joining way later than when this drama arose, all I hear from the PCU are ghost stories, haunting the narrative.
In my personal experience, as a vagrant between guilds, the one PCU-related guild I joined in my foray into Argent Dawn roleplay was generally good to hang with. My only sentiment born from potential shyness and lack of social skills was that I did feel like an outsider in a tight-knit community. Which, honestly, whilst a personal negative, is an overall positive. The feeling of community was there.
Later on as I tried the server out, I kept reading about how they’re “literally satan”. And whilst I’ve read some unsavoury rumours about their members and attitudes, what I experienced wasn’t bad.
My one take on this, as somebody generally unrelated, is to let sleeping dogs lie. More guilds mean more roleplay. And more roleplay is good. People hold on to these grudges as if they weren’t pixels on a screen.
I wish you well on your endeavors. I do appreciate the quality that I see in most of the posts of these related guilds. Makes me jealous, I almost ponder if I could join. Then again, I am an evil warlock and I’d rather stay in my cave.
I guess I do have questions:
Does this community exist in a bubble? Will you interact solely within the circle, or are there plans to engage with the wider server community?
Is the hosted RP a regular ocurrence?
How do you deal with the negative connotations associated with the former “brand”?
I guess rather than discussion on the topic my view of this thread is more of a curious one…
I personally think that this thread is also not needed. Gruggosh summarised it well in his post, this is really not that deep. With all respect the opinions of others are irrelevant if the community is having fun RPing with each other.
If you believe it to be a cheap rebrand attempt, or not, then cool, that’s fine. You’re currently like the gif of that one guy talking really fast at the brick wall.
I don’t engage in bubble RP. I prefer an open, immersive experience, where roleplay can be unpredictable and lively. Personally, I’m happy to interact with anyone we meet, as long as it’s respectful.
It depends on the guild. Mine roleplays almost daily, though we take breaks for in-game content, holidays, or personal schedules.
My main focus is to roleplay, ideally with anyone who’s interested. If there are concerns, I’m more than willing to discuss them in-game. I just prefer to keep those conversations off the forums.
I hope that clears things up for you. May your blades never dull.
Malcontents and morons will put a spin on everything and everyone in a negative light as long as doing so makes them look better, allows them to self-victimize or just for the sake of confirmation bias.
Whatever anyone from the Argent Dawn AAA Roleplay Development Team, ex-PCU or unaffiliated individuals will post here, someone will just say or think its PR or lies, then justify it with some nonsense about how these guilds organizing RP-PvP is them only changing their name and not their agenda.
With as little bias as I can manage, the Perroy of the Perroy Cinematic Universe left the game during Shadowlands and the focus of the narrative moved away from faction conflict, which the PCU likes to incorporate into their RP. Interest in the community waned and from what I’ve heard, there were some controversies in some guilds. Some guilds stripped themselves of the PCU identity entirely and though I’m in no position to make this claim, plenty of people have made the claim that “the PCU is dead.”
However, some guilds from the PCU have adopted A³ as the new name for a new community that they are a part of. The similarities between these communities are the guilds which belong/ed to them and their advertised approach to RP, which seems to be “we just want to enjoy having RP with each other and anyone else who wants to RP with us.”
Murky waters, but I’ll let my pinch of salt in on this one.
Pros of the PCU:
Lore-Based Guilds: The PCU created and supported guilds themed about Warcraft’s lore: at points, there were Defias, a Stormwind Military, and the Hand of Conquest, (and plenty more) who all provided theme and the authentic settings for roleplay.
Active Community: It had a large, active membership that regularly hosted events, promoted collaboration, and kept the roleplaying scene vibrant and engaging. Guilds were running for a minimum of atleast a year (which if you’ve tried leading guilds before, is a very difficult time consuming task). This part is where I feel there could’ve been envy, some saw joining the PCU as ‘selling out’ to maintain an active guild.
New Roleplayer Support: Many new roleplayers found a niche in the PCU, as it offered structured environments and well-defined guilds that helped them learn and grow within the server. They would not be joining a guild which promoted ERP, or hyper-s*xualised characters.
Cons of the PCU:
Most of these are down to personal preference, some can see them as pros.
Blurred IC and OOC Lines: The PCU did have a reputation for blurring the boundaries between in-character (IC) and out-of-character (OOC) dynamics. Rather than allowing for any flexibility, when you roleplayed with them, and they weren’t happy with something - the officers would be sure to let you know, and everyone part of their community. In essence, this caused a sort of cross-cannibalisation of Argent Dawn, as the PCU’s leading core were holding themselves to a manner you would see most Stormwind Guard guilds deal in.
Isolation and Insularity: The community became increasingly isolated from the broader server, forming a bubble that alienated non-PCU roleplayers and created a sense of exclusivity. Where once, Argent Dawn coexisted with the beginnings of the PCU (Legion) and avidly cooperated and supported campaigns this all came to a grinding hold. In BFA a heavy agenda for exclusivity was pushed as their ranks swelled.
Resistance to Criticism: The PCU developed a highly strung defensive stance towards any form of critique, which contributed to an echo chamber and stifled potential for growth or improvement.
‘Monopolization’ of Roleplay: Over time, especially through OOC based interactions the PCU came across as more controlling parts of the roleplay scene rather than fostering collaboration. At the end of the day, we should be looking to support endeavours and not police them.
Internalization: When the PCU was met with dissenters who would harass or act completely out of order towards their own, it turned inward, focusing on maintaining its own community rather than engaging with the wider roleplay scene. Which is a massive shame, but then again, this is precipitated by highly strung roleplayers who have not been taught table manners.
Mob-like Behavior: In earlier stages, certain groups prior to the PCU, such as the (post Armillian) Rotgarde, exhibited mob-like behaviour across stuff like the forums and discord servers, any sort of debate was off the table and rather curating the most upvote or ‘Gotcha’ was much more appealing.
The PCU had good, it had bad, the tiny portion of Argent Dawn who went out of their way to harass or spite them are in a completely separate league of sad. Same with those of the PCU who cultivated a mob sort of lynching for anyone who questioned their way.
Lessons can be learned from the PCU:
Inclusivity: Roleplay communities thrive when they foster inclusivity, flexibility and a lack of ‘control’. There’s also the pro of it not turning stagnant, as you’re going to have much more ideas flowing.
Handling Criticism: Rather than stirring the hornets nest and going on derailing missions, its much beneficial to hear it out (whethers its relevant or not) than to go on the defensive.
Separate IC from OOC: Much like the No-ERP rule, letting IC interactions shift into OOC interactions should be handled with clear boundaries, with respect for players’ autonomy and creativity. Healthy roleplay should prioritize enjoyment for all, without imposing one group’s vision on everyone else. Relaying this freethinking mindset amongst those of the A3 movement could be massively beneficial. If each guild keeps its affairs OOC autonomously, you’re probably not going to fall into the rabbit hole of being considered an echo-chamber of guilds.
Forum Bumps: I would much rather read stories about the inter-personal stories of the Dirge of Teldrassil than “Epic Guild”, there are plenty there already and its a shame when some 10 character bump is the reason I lose interest in reading them. But to me - the forum bumps should atleast be important. Would also be awesome to see more active threads get used on Argent Archives.
Avoiding Monopolies: No group or community should attempt to control the entirety of the server’s roleplay, I use this loosely. Instead, roleplay should be shared and collaborative, with an emphasis on OOC cooperation over competition. Aswell, directly naming a community after another player and worshipping it is ludicrous.
Focus on the RP and have Fun: The more the focus on the actual Roleplay and In-Character initiatives, the better, no matter what past “guild” someone has been in. I think a community that supports the wider server, and follows ideals like what the PCU has shown interest in (certain niches and pockets of lore) will be a brilliant step in revitalising places like the Horde scene.
And that’s really where I end this massive note. I think Argent Dawn could use with willing players and dedicated ones who enjoy creating events and content. And if the reformed A3 takes onboard atleast some of my thoughts, Argent Dawn would be a progressively more pleasant place. Especially cities such as Orgrimmar, or whatever. The more people work together, the better, so good luck A3.
Edit: It’s completely justifiable to look into the PCU with scrutiny, afterall it was a massive project which spanned for over 4 years on Argent Dawn. It’s been the talk of polarity, and interest alike. It’s much better to look into these things with nuance, rather than a blinded light. I for one have no doubt that there are plenty of people who have had a brilliant time in that community, and made some great friends, which is cool.
Thanks for answer. It clarified and also confirmed what I thought might have happened. I was also in PCU guilds as well as in other guilds. Had great time in both.
I think it’s my fault, as I made a serious attempt to communicate with a wall of a post that catalysed some activity. Probably not, but I’ll claim partial credit.
I’m not going to copy everything because my post will be bigger than my queue time as a DPS in LFR, but I’ll respond to some of your cons.
I feel this is kind of speculative and more of a ‘vibe’ from an outside perspective. I can’t tell you if this is true or not given my point of view is from inside said community, but I’ve always personally held an IC/OOC split, and if there’s any issues to bring it up with a clear sense of communication. I feel as if this is a bit vague, so I’m not sure what you mean by ‘lack of flexibility’. In character concepts or actions? Guild concepts? OOC issues?
Let me put it from this perspective: the PCU doesn’t bubble, but given people like Lilynore who’ve held nearly decade-long grudges, do you understand why people would be cautious about others they don’t know well enough to a degree? The PCU has always abhorred bubble RP and would openly RP with anybody, far as I could tell. I made that point very clear as a GM that we go with whatever flows our way. BFA was released 6 years ago, I think you can account for six years of time passing for things to be different or change.
Bit of a catch-22 statement that if I say ‘no we’re open’ it can be said that’s entirely your point. Again, personal experience: I’ve always been open to hearing if there’s a problem, and officers would discuss things regularly if there was a point of criticism that needed airing.
I’ve never really seen this. If anything, the PCU tends to have standards for roleplay, so if you have a guild that has high quality roleplayers with a good, lore-based core to them, other people want to roleplay with that. You can’t monopolise roleplay.
A community likes to play the community they’re involved in because many are friends, know each other, enjoy doing content together and other things. A community should be open to the outside to a degree, but it’s not there just to facilitate everyone else. We’re not here to provide free events and roleplay to everyone.
Maybe in the early stages, but I wouldn’t say that’s the case now.
This seems to assume a few things from an outside perspective.
1 Blurred IC and OOC Lines: The opposite was actually one of the core beliefs of the community and upheld rigorously, I understand some people on the outside could believe otherwise but outside of a few very specific scenarios where OOC issues resulted in cessation of IC engagement, this wasn’t something actively pushed - I will say however, it is a problem that spans far beyond one community and has plagued the server since time immemorial.
2 Isolation and Insularity: Yes, this was a result of consistent and increasing hostility with outsiders, other ‘server pillars’ and individuals that made engaging with outside guilds more trouble than it was worth. It was a symptom, not the cause.
3 Resistance to Criticism: Much of the criticism around PCU roleplay came from outsiders expecting the community to cater to their desires without being part of the community itself, it was seen as rather entitled and so people inside stopped earnestly engaging with outsiders.
4 ‘Monopolization’ of Roleplay: and Internalization: I’d argue there was no overarching strategy to ‘monopolize’ roleplay, but both of these were also symptoms of what I’ve described in point 2.
I’m not trying to deny there were issues, but it wasn’t one-sided.
Edit: As an example, some of you may remember that members/guilds in the PCU were somewhat famous for organising large server wide events. I can tell you the reason why this sort of thing stopped was because there’s always no end to issues, people bickering between one another, refusing to go with the flow, trying to ‘take over’ areas, people unhappy with how things were going or wanted to change to fit their own roleplay and generally giving organisers a headache.
From my point of view, it helps in that it informs people that A³ exists in a very public and direct fashion.
If people learn that a number of ex-PCU guilds are getting together and forming a new community, perhaps they will want to be a part of that. On the other hand, perhaps they will want to stay away due to their personal beliefs the PCU. Either way, it gets the word out there and keeps Argent Dawn informed, no matter what their stance is towards A³ or the PCU and no matter how reasonable or unreasonable that stance may be.
Plus, if there is drama, it’s contained in here and we can revel in it without anyone’s recruitment thread being derailed.
My personal stance is that I have no issue with them or their members and that I’ll happily RP with them if I run into them in the wild, but I will refrain from intentionally joining their guilds or any public events or campaigns hosted by them until I’ve got a better idea of what A³ is like.
Ok so I’m trying to wrap my head around why you created this thread.
And then statements like this
Which make it sound like they’ve a legal obligation to announce they’re moving into the street.
This thread just seems a bit daft, if people are unwilling to accept that time continues to flow and folk have moved on then that’s a personal problem; the solution isn’t to follow people around with a megaphone declaring them lepers.
I’ve no dog in this race, I’m not part of their community nor in any of their guilds.
Roleplay with them or don’t, what does it matter what anyone else thinks, my opinion is as pointless to these people as yours is; neither of us is part of their community.
