A totally unexpected Azshara plot twist coming!

Lore Story
41

I mean, they left the Zandalari at something under 50% of their own fleet. Such a percentage of a large fleet isn’t so bad.

42

You saw that fleet in the Pride of Kul Tiras right? It is beyond OP, specifically, with all the plot nuke characters and Jaina’s flagship backing it up. Not to mention, aerial alliance support with gunships. If it doesn’t sink, victory against Azshara will be achieved in a single week at best.

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43

Believe what you want, don’t tell me that I didn’t warn you when the Kul Tiran fleet is devastated by Azshara.

44

I was telling you that for months…

45

That was before Ion gave the announcement of this “great twist”, and I have been afraid of Ion’s “clever twists” ever since the Burning of Teldrassil. Not because I care about the elves, mind you, they can burn for all I care, but because I feel deceived by Blizzard.

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46

Point is, even if it sinks, it isn’t anything so dramatic.

47

You don’t have the authority to tell people what is dramatic or not.

48

Cataclysm, Mist of Pandaria, Warlords of dreanor.
Cataclysm was a horde focus expension where the alliance served to show off how awesome the horde was at killing.
In Mist of pandaria we spend more time getting our behinds kicked while saving that spoiled human prince andiun and while warlords of dreanor was an insult to orcs everywhere(as in orcs where evil all along and didnt need demon blood to become buttholes) it was still an expension primarly about the horde.
Just not the player horde.
Tyrande going neutral, malfurion going neutral, thrall being shoved in our face, baine feeling said, tharamore nuked and jaina is called evil beyond current sylvanas levels, etc.
Yet one expension where you have to work for the alliance against the enemy of all life is worse then all of that?
To answer your question: No i woudnt mind.
Cleaning up the horde mess is something we have been doing scince cataclysm and it is a nice change to not having to do so but i woudnt mind as it is what we have been doing for years.

Yeah i hate that too.

You have one.
It is called silvermoon.
It is just stuck behind a loading screen:P

I like to think blizzard has learned(Atleast they seem to respond more to horde cries then alliance cries) from there mistakes.

On topic:
At this point in time the only twist that would suprise me is that the alliance defeats Azshara attempt to destroy the fleet, Wins the war against the horde and vassalize the horde.

I mean lets face it.
Blizzard cant allow the alliance to win.
Think of the sub loss.
The burning of tederasill would be a minnor loss in compairision if the horde gasp accauly lost.

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49

Well, not if they insist on being dramatic…

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50

I take the Horde being deleted entirley over becoming Vassals to the human empire any day. At least then Blizzard can’t hurt us any further once we are fully gone and off the picture.

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51

No it wasn’t, people like to say this because Blizzard equalizes the number of questing zones to the Horde would have the same as Alliance.
Now of course some Alliance players saw this as Horde bias, when the Horde zones were massively underdeveloped compared to Alliance since Vanilla.

You still got your story, free of constantly following Horde characters, maybe Horde got more story here than the Alliance by a little bit.
That story however was not liked at all in the majority of the Horde community (that follow the story anyway) and seeing it repeat again in BfA is baffling for everyone.

I don’t understand how anyone can say that this was a Horde expansion.
First off Iron Horde =/= Horde.
Second, WoD really fleshed out and added Draenei lore that people really liked.
Third, only really Horde story in WoD was during leveling and Alliance had their own leveling story.
We were once again following an Alliance character throughout the expansion in the form of Khadgar who have us the legendary ring.
Last but not least, nobody liked WoD’s ending, seeing as how the Iron Horde was defeated in 1 patch and how suddenly we were fighting the Burning Legion and the famous “Draenor is free” line.

One expansion where we were fighting against the ultimate bad, the bad that for most of wow’s life was the biggest bad in the lore. Of course.
Horde wouldn’t exist without the Burning Legion, Orcs wouldn’t attack the Draenei so they would probably stay on Draenor, undead wouldn’t exist so the Forsaken would still be Humans, Belves wouldn’t lose the Sunwell so they would remain High Elves.

All of that history and yet none of those races had any part to play on Argus or the Broken Isles in general. Everything was reserved for the Draenei ofc. and Alleria, Turalyon, Velen, Khadgar, all characters that have Alliance backgrounds/are in the Alliance now.

What?
When has Silvermoon ever been in anything?
When has a Horde organization played a part in a magic related incident?
It has always been the Kirin Tor lead by Humans, not only that but Aethas had to beg so that the Horde could be led back into Dalaran in Legion.

Why can’t the Horde races whose whole civilizations are built on magic have their own organizations and their own OP mage characters?

Horde already lost in MoP, and everyone is expecting the Horde to lose again in this faction war.
Alliance has all the advantages and should’ve won already tbh.
Horde are the villains and villains always lose in WoW.

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52

There used to be some of those, but Blizzard killed them all before they could do any interesting with them. Its all about humans these days. Everywhere and any day.

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53

And it could have written as a war where both side win and lose.
Not just: Save the alliance/slaughter the alliance.

I agree on that but it was still a story in which the alliance was busy saving there own where the horde kept conquering.
Blizzard seemed to go out of there way to make the alliance look like wimps in need of saving, All the bleeding time and suddenly we have a massive invasion of ogrimar and we end up giving away stuff against people who attacked us.
It shoud have been better written.
Which brings me to:

The previous 2 expensions we are getting our butt kicked by the horde.
Then comes the iron horde aka more orcs.
We already had enough of orcs in the last two expensions and now we are shoved even more orcs down our throught.
They might not have been the same horde orcs but they where orcs no the less.
Where dreanei wherent shoved down our thoughts yet so we didnt mind.
You will notice there is alot of complaining about human portential lately and how we are tired of seeing them.
The reason warlords of dreanor is consider an horde expension is because it is again all about orcs, orcs, orcs.
When we already had our fill of orcs.

Agreed.

Dreanei who had the neccery space ships.
And trust me plenty of alliance players complaint about Turalyon being the leader of the army of light.
Humans are becoming what orc where.
Unwanted spotlight hoging jerks.

While i understand that the other race’s have there reasons to fight the legion.
Said races dont have space ships.
I remember a post about how blizzard would have made it horde content if they could have shoved that nerrative down our throught.
That is how sick the alliance players where of horde this, horde that.
So yeah it was dreanei heavy, Because dreanei are the only one with space ships.

Before the scourge.
Blizzard could make it the horde version of dallaren if they wanted too.

Because making new cities cost effort and time they rather waste on raids.

The horde won that war in all but name.
They get more lands, Get away with warcrimes and got most of the spotlight.
Having the alliance accauly win rather then help vo’ijn win is what we hope for but wont get.

Agreed.

After thrall left i agree.

The lich king is still around, The legion is leaderless not dead, the old gods are currenlty winning, Andiun is brainwashing everyone into his ideal sociaty and the naga are on the rise.
How did evil lose?
Set backs arent defeats.

54

If I had to bet, I’d expect that this sudden twist will address either:

  • The ease with which the Alliance is winning the war at the end of Dazar’alor.
  • The Horde turmoil with Saurfang and Baine.

I feel like the “twist” intended will change either or both of said situations

I mean, at this point that would be the only true “twist” they’d have left after signalling the above for so long.

Ps: That, or somehow this whole mess ends up being Azsharas fault in some way.

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55

Not again!

NOT AGAIN!

:tired_face:

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The problem with that is that they had to redesign basically the whole world at the start of Cata, surprised they actually pulled off what they did.
It was the easiest way to justify Horde getting more zones and let’s face it, Blizz was never good at writing a faction war story anyway.

Seemed to me like that is what they did to the Horde, having to go and ask the Alliance for help to fix their own problems, same as in BfA now.

Ah yes the orc fatigue, sure people were tired of orcs. Nobody liked how they turned previous orc heroes and orcs that were supposed to be peaceful into bloodthirsty monsters that want to genocide the draenei again just for the heck of it without the demon blood.
Real nice for all the people who were defending orcs for years on the forums.

I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen, seeing how many characters humans have and how this whole expansion could just be renamed to Jaina fanfic.

That’s a really weak reason imo.
The Horde PC saves Exodar in Legion and now the Horde can’t help them go to Argus, where they also have their own business with the Legion?
Why does the Horde PC get to go and what are Liadrin and that Nightborne dude doing there (forgot the name)?
Just to have some representation would’ve been nice, to see that the Horde is actually there and is actually helping in saving Azeroth.

If only, they could update Suramar maybe, but TBC zones are probably never getting changed.

So developing the Horde is too much effort then?
Just think of some stupid reason why the Horde can suddenly use an Alliance city because they’re too lazy to make and develop something for the Horde.

That is how you get stories like BfA, where one faction has 10 times more cities and characters and should just stomp the other faction.
They have to gimp that faction (Alliance in this case) by a lot in order for the story to make sense.
They have to make the characters make stupid decisions to prolong the war since half of the playerbase are gonna feel bad if their faction gets stomped in 1 patch.

Well Arthas is dead, scourge hasn’t been a problem since.
Legion is no longer such a big threat anymore and the old gods are of course gonna lose in the end as well.

57

Sigh, I hate writing lost posts…

I don’t think you actually understand why Cataclysm was a ridiculously biased expansion if you think that Alliance players only complain about the zone equalization. It actually seems like you have never quested Alliance side, either before or after the revamp.

Cataclysm was the expansion where the Alliance was made to lose everywhere, even when zone balancing was not an issue. There was no zone balancing reasons for the Alliance to lose at Andorhal, there was no zone balancing reasons for Ashenvale to be as overrun with Horde forces to the point of the Horde having fortresses erected as far as Zoram Strand of all places, there was no zone balancing reasons for the druid academy at Stonetalon to successfully get blown by that wayward Horde general, there was no zone balancing reasons for a random nobody to massacre Nijel’s Point, and those are from the top of my head.

Hell, I am going to say something really funny that a lot of people don’t bring up:

There was no zone balancing reason for the Worgens to lose Gilneas either, given that it is the Worgen starting zone and Horde players never interact with the questing there. Worgens entering the Alliance could work just fine without them losing their kingdom and that would actually be balanced, given that the Goblins were given Azshara, by having the Night Elves vouching for them after helping them with the curse.

All these, coupled with the fact that the Alliance lost beloved places like Southshore and Auberdine due to either the Cataclysm or balancing, left a profoundly bad taste in many a Alliance players’ mouth.

In addition to all that:

Devs finished the Horde revamp of their old zones first, leaving the Alliance ones unfinished and even those that got finished were a complete mess. Arathi Highlands, where Southshore survivors were supposed to drive the Forsaken back behind Thoradin’s Wall was never implemented, instead we got the same vanilla quests with slight corrections. Alliance side Ashenvale missed a lot of phasing on Alliance side to the point of visiting NE settlements under siege, ignoring it and going your way, despite the place still eing under siege. Duskwood was old Duskwood with almost nothing new.

Even zones that got completed like Redridge and Westfall are generally hated to this day by Alliance players because the devs replaced their old mature storylines with Rambo and CSI memes that showed a profound lack of care. Still to this day, we do not have an Alliance equivalent to the awesomeness that is Silverpine, story-wise, for example.

On top of that, new Alliance storylines got dropped like hot potato because “lol, no time” like the Benedictus/Twilight Father one. We didn’t even get a proper introduction to the Twilight Highlands, like you did.

So no, it wasn’t only because “zone equalization” that Cataclysm was a Horde biased expansion. It was a Horde biased expansion because it was an expansion for Horde players by Horde devs, who lowkey told anyone that liked the Alliance “go fornicate yourselves, you do not matter” in a plethora of ways. It was a Horde biased expansion because the devs allowed Horde players to take revenge on almost every single thing that happened to them (Taurajo and the Stonespire tribe come to mind), while they told Alliance players that there was nothing they could do for all the things they lost. And you know what? That is all fine, but don’t try to claim otherwise just to reinforce a point.

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58

I agree with this part.
It was the easiest and there crap at faction war writting.
It wasnt the best.

After having kicked said alliance across several zones vo’ijn begging for alliance help was an attempt the appeast the angry alliance fans.
A failed attempt.
Do tell me about quests where you have to save the horde from your ships being sunk because your npc cant fight for crap, you where told to let the civilions flee and arrest your own man for looting or where you had to rely on several deux ex machina just to be able to reclaim your ancestral land from a single clan of night elves.
Or having several of your place’s nuked.
Or having to travel to some far away land to save the child of the warchief.
Or having a massive air fleet comming out of nowhere to save the day because you where losing every fight until the hero arive to save the day.
It is the same in bfa execpt everything is turned up to eleven.
Where the night elves fought of garrosh sylvanas curb stomped them, The alliance was handed the idiot ball to prevent them from inflicing massive causitals on the horde and we spend most of our time saving the horde from its evil leader.
Excuees me while i puke.

I agree.
I think everyone agree’s that orc lore was destroyed by warlords of dreanor.
But it doesnt change the fact we just had 2 expensions that focus on orcs/horde and we where really tired of them.

It is happening.
We are seeing night elves and worgen being more independed.
Gnomes high thinker and void elf girl getting more spotlight.
Andiun being shoved out of line of sight so we dont have to deal with him.
I agree that it is still to human focused by i do think they lissen and try to make it less of a human empire and more of an alliance.
Too early to tell.

That is the reasoning we have.
Saving the exodar doesnt mean the horde suddenly has space ships or free reign of dreanei ships.

You contridict yourself:

This is the horde contribution.
You have to remember that the broken shore make the horde seem like they have betrayed the alliance.
It would make senses not to house a large group of possible enemies.
You have to remember the horde has been at war with the alliance so many times that you not being blasted into space dust the moment you set foot on the ship is already more respect then your factions has earned in the alliance eyes.

Yeah i want new cities too.

Welcome to modern day warcraft.

Arthes was a body of the lich king.
Bolvar is now the body.
The lich king is more then its hosts.
It started as nerzul but has become something more as the scourge grew.
Undead can be reanimated.
I like to think the lich king is laying low because the alliance and horde have an impressive kill record.
It is immortal it got the time to simple waits until his enemies die off of old age.
The scourge is still a threat.
Just one that doesnt wish to poke the hornet nest.
After all it was arthas arrogance that made it lose the cunning manipulation it did in warcraft 3.

The legion exist out of countless worlds and many demon lords.
It is a mather of time for new leaders reunited the legion.
Probley a few milenina.

And the old gods will probley be reimprisioned.

Delaying evil isnt the same as defeating it.
That is why i call it setbacks.
Meanwhile the alliance and horde are losing cities, fortresses, troops, land, etc.
A death by a thousent cuts is still a death.

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59

Yeah, the most common complaint by Alliance players about cata (especially from Nelf fans) were that they were always losing and always defending but never pushing back and punishing the Horde.

Guess what though, that is precisely the Horde story in BfA so far. Horde is losing everywhere, even in content that didn’t have to do anything with the faction war.
We’re on the brink of another civil war, it’s playing out exactly like MoP but even worse.

This is exactly what happened to the Horde in vanilla, Blizz finished Alliance zones first and didn’t have time to flesh out the Horde zones.
It’s probably why they worked on Horde zones first in cata and the same thing happened.
While the Horde surely got more focus than Alliance in cata I still don’t think that qualifies it for a Horde biased expansion as you say.
If that were the case then all previous expansions were Alliance biased expansions.

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60

So the Alliance community finally what it felt like to get Horde treatment for the past 5 years where they used to rule Azeroth unchallenged? Oh go cry me a river.