About factions representation/balance

Hello folks, this will be quite a long post, but there will be tldr at the end to summarize what is all about.

What I wanted to talk about is that for all of these years we have faction related things in the game and they seem to be not doing very good from both story/representation and mechanical/balance perspective.

What I see currently is that one of the factions, namely Alliance seems to be not in right spot of this whole thing in both of these aspects for most of the history, and here I would like to provide a list of things which I really don’t like about alliance:

  1. Lack of mature representation of the faction, in comparison to it horde is that cool guy always
  2. Territorially faction seems to be mostly losing or being in less control of the lands they once had
  3. Faction balance went downhill since TBC with OP horde racials and consequences still visible
  4. Alliance painted as morally grey faction now thanks to current writing → especially did not like alliance destroying relations with (at the start) high elves and alike

Now to shortly explain each of the points:

  1. Alliance feels more like reacting force all the time or even like a punch bag for these brutal orcs/forsaken you name it. Horde always felt like something cool, brutal and interesting to most of the players, Nobody wanted to play boring hoomans because of that. Also blue faction doesn’t feel strong compared to the horde, horde always can start conquerring new lands, where alliance at best can defend their territories.
  2. Now about territorial gains, this is something which we can clearly see since cataclysm where horde was conquering and taking over lotsa land in both eastern kingdoms and kalimdor and alliance was constantly losing territory (prime example: stonetalon, where horde went full on destroying everything night elven druids had and the alliance was trying to defend what was left of the once glorius zone). And then the final blow was burning of teldrassil which even addition of neutral bel’ameth did not compensate much in my eyes. And what allaince gets in return after “victory” in bfa? Nothing to see in the actual game sadly, no rebuilt stromgarde, no retaken darkshore (still you can end up in horde controlled version of it randomly) and no other sufficient gains to justify the “victory”. Even on Zandalar where presumably they won by killing Rasta’khan, we did not see much changes in terms of land control either, more like just plot victory. Also I was saying that it feels like Alliance losing or having not full control in their own lands, here are few examples: gnomes still were unable to fully reclaim Gnomeregan after all these years, Stormwind was half in ruins in cata, meanwhile Orgrimmar was looking even more spicy and fortified and received facelift. Night elves lost entire city, forsaken on the other hand can clear the poison after some time and reclaim undercity or literally start living in upper part of the city after some rebuilding. And I would agree that bel’ameth was good replacement if it was not neutral city, if night elves should get new city the city should not welcome opposite faction who literally burned their home once.
  3. This is pretty much self explanatory, horde had OP racials since TBC until maybe legion, and then people just were already used to horde anyways so it was too late for blizzard to fix the issue
  4. Now this is the big one: In short, story of the alliance was not of my liking, how they were represented by the writers. I always wanted alliance be like that good guy who always strives for good and tries to always be in the right on the moral compass, unlike the horde who don’t need to care much about morals, they just want to survive regardless of cost and the ways. But blizzard was viewing the blue faction differently, so they planted even war crimes since the inception of warcraft franchise starting with concentration camps for orcs and then that infamous Garithos story, who was acting like douche with elves and thanks to him alliance lost all relations to now blood elves. And then we had Jaina repeating the same thing but in Dalaran. And then we had some other shady stuff, like Taurajo thing. And maybe I could tolerate the crime part of the story if they at least found guilty ones and teached them a lesson, but they did not even do that. Jaina is still to be prosecuted and roams freely. Speaking of crimes, it seems that the most of the crimes were committed by humans. A lot of people saying draenei are bad because muh eredar, but I would just take retconned story where there was a chunk of “eredar” who did not join the legion and these are Velen and his people. And even if they were once bad, this is long in the past and they are not following that path since eons. And other races: dwarves were mostly minding their business with gnomes, most wars even back in wc2/3 were fought by humans from alliance side. But overall, my point is, I don’t feel like it is fun when blizzard paint your favorite faction dirty sending it into morally grey realm, I know being all for good might be boring for someone, but that’s why horde exists if you want something new or not so conventional, let others enjoy their cup of tea as well.

And here are my points addressing why I think that alliance is not in good spot right now. And before someone jumps in with “Horde is so underwhelming, we are now like lapdogs of the alliance, forced to partake in ally story”, you guys at least had your hour of glory during cata and mop, where alliance always were in this weird situation of reacting to the attacks and trying to defend their lands, and then after bfa ended it just went to these neutral/“alliance painted” stories which just feel shallow and not giving true significance to the faction.

Anyways feel free to discuss, just keep it civil

TLDR: Alliance treated poorly storywise and in game by devs and writers.

Sure…Alliance has been treated poorly storywise in the game.
That’s why literally everyone plays Alliance these days…

Horde has best Racials? Why is everyone a nightelf then?

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According to https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/factions, Horde outnumber Alliance at both All Levels and Level Cap

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I have no idea how accurate those numbers are.
Their disclaimer also says so, and does not align with my playing experience either.

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it doesn’t align with my experience either. 70% Horde 30% Alliance is closer to what I see in Dornogal, in the overworld and in any M+ group being formed.

Judjing by the server you are from, you might be just out of luck, there are tons of horde based servers and maybe there are some rp ones as well. Argent Down was always feeling like ally server to me. Speaking of racials: look back in classic times and then also I said that horde was OP until like Legion. And even after blizzard “fixed” imbalance a lot of players still stayed with the horde, like top tier and so top tier guilds doing mythic raiding.

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Undermine has been the first time since BFA that Blizzard made story for the Horde.

Dornogal, and Hallowfall for example are clearly alliance-centered. Dragonflight’s last patch was about restoring the home of the nightelves. Shadowlands was about anduin and a bit of sylvanas+Tyrande rivalry mostly story-wise

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not to mention: therr was literly no allaince victory in cata, allaince was punshing bag, and even blizazrd admitted onece they care more for the horde adn even cut allaince conet for more horde one.

losing 2 zones, inculding one capital, and got only one with a joke of an capital- which is even neutral.

tbf, story wise its rebuild, we got that in the audio novela, but ingame less likly and his is a point many allaince palyers compalin, if horde wind, the effects are shon immedetly, if allaince, its just mendtiond in books.

btw, we got stromgard, but lose half of arathi to the mag`har, so yeah, gear, thansk blizz for lett us win but give us only half of the prize…

and blizzard dint fix tehm for a long time while after the human one was a bit overtuned but fixed it soon.

and remember blood evels got a free interreupt

interment camps, and i dont understand why people alwasy say ist a war cirme, it isnt, since remember, the orkc murder, r@pe and pillage through azeroth in the 2 wars, being on Fel- Meath.
Beig put into camps was basily mercy, since gilneas and strom wanted them kill them, the others dont want commidt genocide.

not an alliance warcime, since alliance wasnt involed and jaina was head of teh kirin tor during taht time, and btw, the sunreavrer workd for the horde, breaking the neutrality, so jaina punish only traitors (and blizzard adit the killyns by jaian were a bug)

Legit military target- even confirmd by bain.
no warcrime.

“Baine Bloodhoof] called Camp Taurajo a legitimate military target and recognized that Hawthorne refused to slaughter civilians when he could have just given the order to massacre everyone.”

Source: warcraft wiki

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I would maybe agree about DF last patch, since they literally gave night elves - one of core ally races new homeland, but other 2, they are not clearly related to alliance, I never seen that alliance actually claims control over Dorn or Hallowfall. Sure there are some similarities, by aesthetics and such, but earthen for instance were also back in wotlk when we were doing that one ulduar dungeon, and they were not of certain allegiance. And here we just get full fledged introduction of the earthen to the world after so many years. You might also say Titans are alliance centered and earthen descend from titans, but titans are completely different things, they are above all of that faction related stuff.
And Hallowfall maybe was once part of alliance, since Arathi, but these Arathi pretty much lived by themselves far away for so long, so they probably aren’t really keen to just pledge to Stormwind. But it is my view.

And once again, I was pointing out in my OP that even though hordes were “forced into ally based” stories, but to me it doesn’t look like alliance got anything from that either, although on the other hand if alliance should win zones not by force but by diplomacy which I really would like to see, then yeah earthen finding good relations with alliance and arathi as well probably was something good, but this is all subjective. Maybe I would be more interested in the way how they introduced horde to the zones, where alliance sure was doing all diplomacy and getting friends in the zone but horde would try to take it by force

Second most of this, this what I wanted to say basically but in other words. Speaking of taurajo though, baine was not so welcomed by horde players, they think he would rather sell horde to alliance. And also I have no idea why taurajo - the tauren village which was seemingly innocent was suddenly Military Target. And then Jaina, we had Jaina back in Theramore in cata, and she was looking like part of alliance since then, so it is clearly alliance missdoings with Jaina purging city.

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They are more or less equal according to that data.

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Nobody cares about story. Everyone cares about esthetics and player power.

When it comes to racials, Alliance beats Horde by a significant margin. So everyone plays alliance. And then esthetically Nelfs and Belfs are hot. Therefore everyone plays that.

Nobody cares about the story.

And the few that care would notice that Gallywax is the 3rth Horde leader to turn into a Raid boss “bad guy” situatuation. And will be the 5rth Horde leader to get murdered.

Compare that to the alliance… Not even close…

So if I may say: You are full of BS story wise. Alliance are pampered like the “good blue guys” they pretend to be. Meanwhile the horde are painted as the “bad guys” constantly… So no… I disagree with you.

Also PS: Death to those Alliance dogs. They stink.

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According to linked chart above it seems not true that everyone plays alliance.
And about story, this what I don’t like: alliance being morally grey BS, and not true good guys after rounds of poor writing, especially humans. Horde on other hand was always cool, doesn’t matter if you got villain bat or not, who cared about being villain batted in cata or any other expac other than mop tail end?

And if you want to say so, then let our feelings be mutual: death to all the orcish beasts of the horde

The ones that play horde are all Belfs. Which sais already something:

Its not about story its about esthetics.

If the alliance were the “good guys” then by defenition there should be “bad gys”. If you think about this, it is true.

We had to invade Orgrimar TWICE. Not sure if you call that “cool”.

Filthy Gnome ! Annoying to the core. Atleast Nelfs can work in the Orgrimmar Harems. Gnomes… not worth enslaving. Or Eating. Not enough meat…

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third time’s the charm?

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I feel you here, blood elves might have ruined the once established brutal and tribal feel of the horde it was once. And yeah aesthetics pretty much is all what people care about playing this game and get that gear treadmill done and doing actual content for scores and such. Nobody cares about story anymore which is sad but not far from truth.

About good guys bad guys, I really liked how it was done in star wars for instance. But here I just wanted that alliance was not commiting nothing bad and being always on the bright side, and then horde can be whatever they want, but if they try to do something bad then don’t be upset why alliance wanted to beat you down.

And continuing about feelings, I don’t understand do you just hate allinace as a whole and gnomes in particular? what they did to you

Undermine is quite literally the first Horde centric story beat we had after BFA the first half of TWW was all about following the great alliance heroes around who made their hatred against the Horde clear from the get go. Quit complaining Blizzard treats you fantastically compared to the red team these days.

Yes and Baine was hated for that ever since. There is areason Horde players dunk on him all the time.

I play FOrc since 2004. I havent done a single alliance toon. EVER. Not even a level 1.

Its a bit of RP to be honest. Nothing more. Dont take it seriously.

I also hate all Horde races except orcs, which are the ultimate gigachad race, while everyone else is inferior to us.

Long live Garrosh. Loktar Ogar…

Yeah miss Garrosh, as well he would line up horde in ranks.

Now speaking of that alliance was treated very good in story maybe yes, but in game: ???, we did not see much of actual alliance gains in terms of land, and even though the first part of TWW was alliance clownage, which I also kinda despised, that you need to always run behind Alleria, Anduin, and some Earthen and be sent to battle by them and not by your faction, that’s why I also don’t feel good about next expansion where possibly opposite can happen. Just let the factions follow their OWN story, don’t mish mash it like that and don’t force any faction to follow opposite faction’s story.

And even though someone can say we had alliance leading the story since bfa, but what about quality of the story and significance to the faction. It felt all shallow and empty, bfa was probably the most joke of expac about faction war and then afterwards we were just completely departing from faction pride and conflict altogether with pushed neutral story or “alliance themed” story which actually did not serve much to alliance pride either. I would rather wanted that alliance had strong king leading maybe into some new lands and winning them by diplomacy or fixing all of the existing alliance places fostering defences, instead we getting sent rendezvous to answer another big threat to Azeroth without much time to address faction stuff

I’ll consider that point when we’ve had a Siege of Stormwind raid.

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