Ok, sure. How would you explain the fact, Vanilla made you feel like you were part of a bigger world, factions interacted with each other with or without you, yet you could change the outcome of multiple stories. The World part felt massive, it took time for information to travel. Sadly now, we’re at the Game of Thrones season 8 part of things.
Not necessarily true. Plenty of high quality art goes unrecognized by people because the details go over their head. I have several friend who didnt love Arcane S1 because they didnt understand some of the story beats, didnt spot all the effort into the animation and eastereggs/foreshadowing hidden between the frames. And on the other hand people still enjoy plenty of Star wars stuff due to the fact that its basic.
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It was also possible to enjoy it with no knowledge, but a friend found spotted so many things in the series from the game that was totally lost on me xD
There is no mention of group content or PvP in that paragraph.
You really seem to be hell bent on making a big deal about nothing.
I replied covering the points raised and that was it. If you don’t feel those were raised then that’s fine but I answered to what was replied directly to me.
Its not a big deal i am simply confused, because for me he was still tiping about lore/story.
Not saying its not possible. It was highly praised by a lot of people even though they didnt fully understand it. Just saying that my friends found it just OK, because they didnt understand it.
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If people walk away from something confused or disconnected, it doesn’t prove hidden depth; it shows a weak foundation. Good artworks work in layers, but the basics have to land first. You can have subtle details, hidden foreshadowing, and complex narrative threads, but the foundation, like pacing, tone, clarity, and emotional impact, needs to hit immediately.
If the basics fail, no amount of hidden effort will save it. Art isn’t judged by how many people miss background details; it’s judged by how well it connects on first contact. Hidden depth is supposed to enhance the experience, not compensate for poor execution.
Saying people missed the brilliance because they didn’t catch every Easter egg or hidden frame is an excuse. The basics should carry the experience for everyone, regardless of how much detail they catch. If the foundation is weak, the whole structure collapses, no matter how much hidden effort is buried inside.
Strong art rewards deeper attention, but the basics are what make people care enough to look closer. Without that, you’re just building complexity on top of nothing.
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I agree with you, don’t get me wrong.
I’m sure people who watched the Warcraft film vs non Warcraft players had the same.
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Honestly I have been playing WoW for literal ages and at no point before did I care less about the story. Everything about it is just honestly bad. Starting at the writing and ending at how it is being delivered to us. It does not feel like Warcraft. You used to be able to appreciate WoW by jumping in and just playing the game but to even stand a chance at appreciating the current story so much understanding is needed around things that has happened before because the writing is just so far detached from delivering an entertaining and relatable story.
It’s just sad to go from legends such as Illidan, Arthas and Thrall to… now… World of Glamcraft.
Hmm, just so I’m clear on what you mean.
Would this be like going back into the WoTLK expansion, where Arthas was the target and we knew he was the target, but in the same patch that ICC opened up, Blizzard gave more backstory to the San’layn Elves, through the Quel’delar quest chain, whereby - it just went hand-in-hand with the main Arthas story.
It was a great execution, connecting to the main character of the expansion.
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You dont get what I’m saying. Arcanes S1 story foundation was solid, pretty easy to understand. I’m saying that my friends are stupid. And thats my point some people just cant understand something due to XYZ and in turn ruins their experience with good art, while on the other hand having nonsensical plota spoonfed to them hits the spot.
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Wrath only worked when everything stayed connected to the core of the expansion. Arthas was the focus, the atmosphere was unified, and even side content like Quel’delar circled back to the same themes of corruption, legacy, and the Scourge. It built the world without distracting from the foundation.
But even Wrath slipped. Later patches like Trial of the Crusader broke the structure. It was disconnected filler that stalled the momentum and pulled players out of the escalating threat. It added content but not meaning. When they lost focus and padded the game with side distractions, it weakened the overall impact.
Dragonflight is that problem but worse. They stacked lore factions and worldbuilding with no connection to a clear villain theme or narrative spine. The story felt scattered, the world felt shallow, and even when isolated moments were decent, it all collapsed under weak structure.
The War Within sits in the middle. You can see the potential. They brought back darker zones, ancient ruins, the Arathi bloodline, and legacy threads that feel more grounded than Dragonflight. But they still dump complexity with no control. More factions, ancient secrets, disconnected lore, layered over an unstable foundation. Even when zones or quests land, the structure is weak, and the good moments get drowned in noise.
Adding backstory only works when the core narrative is solid. Wrath had that early on but cracked when they padded content. Dragonflight abandoned it completely. The War Within teases it but risks ruining everything with bad content and no narrative discipline. You cannot patch a weak story with random lore fragments. The foundation has to be strong first.
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If the foundation was solid and easy to understand, your friends would not be confused. That is the entire point of a strong foundation: it lands regardless of how smart or invested someone is. You should not need to be highly analytical or lore obsessed to follow the core beats of good storytelling.
If people are walking away confused or disconnected, that is not always on them being stupid; it often means the story failed to communicate clearly, even if the deeper layers or hidden details are well crafted. If it only lands for people already tuned into every nuance, then it is not as solid as you claim.
Animals have emotional reactions to The Lion King; your friends are not stupid; the story was just poorly executed. If the foundation of a story is strong, people instinctively connect with it, even if they miss hidden details. When someone walks away confused or detached, it is not their intelligence failing; it is the structure and delivery of the story that failed to land emotionally at a basic level.
Good storytelling connects without needing analysis or lore knowledge. Complexity is earned after the basics work, not used to excuse confusion.
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I see what you mean.
I think this is the issue. WoTLK, even Cata - they all had their end boss in mind. Perhaps the issue we’ve got here is that TWW is part of a Saga, so their isn’t really a direct path towards the end boss, so these side stories can just be added in, because…there’s no clear directive.
I mean, the next patch has Dimensius (can’t remember how to spell his name) being the main target with a side story relating to a Blood Elf Demon Hunter and Void Elf Illidari Trainee…with the former being corrupted by the void, but it’s still a little all over the place because it’s not how TWW started.
Personally - I think this is where Blizzard has been falling these past few years. They introduce a new landmass and they waffle on about “meeting the new people, exploring their culture, earning their respect as we fight the big bad guy”, but by the end of the expansion - nothing about this new land or it’s people are actually involved at the end of that expansion’s story.
Do you think they need to stop trying to be clever and bring something in that players could relate to, easily?
For example - in the coding, Blizzard did plan on having a more Queen Azshara/Nightborne conflict in the Nighthold, but they removed it, fearing players wouldn’t understand the connection between Nightborne and Naga (despite Thalyssra’s cinematic directly telling us that Azshara was once their queen, but whatever…)
I’d say this is a fairly simple, yet interesting moment between the two groups of Elves and didn’t require Kosak’s overthinking.
I mean everyone else seemed to get what the story beats were. Idk if you had watched the show or not, but my friends didnt understand a basic character arc of someone going from a ruthless mobster to a father, even though it was laid bare what the relationship of said character was with his adopted doughter. When that character got offered everything he ever wanted in exchange for turning in his daughter and he refused my friends went “I dont get it, why would he do that?”.
The real issue is the lore has exploded beyond what Warcraft was designed for. It started as grounded sword and sorcery with brutal, simple conflicts and clear archetypes. Now we have cosmic entities eating planets and lore fragments that feel completely disconnected from the world’s foundation.
Yes, we always had old gods, titans, and ancient forces, but they worked because they were myths. Distant, Sauron-like threats that built atmosphere without overpowering the world. The focus stayed grounded on mortal factions, flawed leaders, and brutal contained conflicts.
It was already a mistake dragging those forces directly into the spotlight. Making Arthas the Lich King or Deathwing the world-ending villain stripped away the mystery and scale. The more they escalated, the more they hollowed out the setting.
They keep doing this out of fear that smaller, grounded stories will not hold attention. But constant power creep is not the only way. Real tension comes from deep character conflicts, fractured alliances, and ideological struggles. You raise stakes through mature, grounded storytelling, not cartoon-scale inflation.
Older expansions stayed within those boundaries. Now the structure is bloated, the world feels disconnected, and Blizzard keeps chasing spectacle over depth. You cannot escalate forever without breaking the setting.
They keep overthinking the story instead of leaning into simple, grounded archetypes that people relate to instantly. Conflict between the Nightborne and Azshara was the perfect setup: ancient betrayal, lost legacy, corrupted power. But they pulled it back out of fear players would not get it, which shows how far they have drifted from understanding good storytelling.
Archetypal stories work because they are simple but powerful. They tap into universal patterns of loyalty, betrayal, rebellion, and power struggles. You see it in ancient myths, great literature, and even the Bible. Look at the Book of Exodus: enslaved people rising up against a corrupt ruler, refusing to let go, divine punishment, and the search for freedom. No hidden details, no convoluted cosmic nonsense, just raw, relatable conflict that sticks with people.
Blizzard used to do this well. Warcraft was built on those same archetypes: flawed kings, corrupted heroes, power-hungry leaders. Now they constantly bury those ideas under layers of disconnected lore, cosmic threats, and spectacle that strips away the human side of the story. The more they chase complexity, the more they lose what made the world believable.
The other problem is they write the world how they want it to be, not how it is. That makes the storytelling feel idealistic, disconnected, and fake. You cannot build a grounded, brutal setting while forcing idealised outcomes that contradict the harsh world they created. Fantasy needs to reflect real struggles and consequences, not utopian fantasy logic layered over a world built on conflict and survival.
People do not need endless lore dumps to feel invested. They need relatable, grounded stories that echo the same patterns humans have followed for thousands of years. That is what real fantasy thrives on.
It didn’t work because the show skipped the emotional groundwork and expected the audience to fill in the gaps. The relationship between Silco and Jinx is treated like it is obvious and earned, but the story barely shows them building trust or emotional dependency. Instead, the audience is told they have a deep father-daughter bond, but not shown enough shared moments to make that believable.
When the moment comes where Silco refuses to betray Jinx, it falls flat for anyone not already projecting their own feelings onto the scene. The emotional payoff relies on the viewer bringing their own assumptions, rather than the story building those emotions naturally through time, shared struggle, or character development.
Good storytelling makes emotional arcs land on their own. If the audience has to carry the emotion for the writers, the structure is weak. That is why people walked away confused. The character arc was not properly developed, the connection felt rushed, and the payoff expected too much projection from the viewer.
Arcane got by on atmosphere, style, and dramatic presentation, but under the surface, the emotional structure was shaky. That is why it did not work for everyone, and why Season 2 failed to land properly at all.
I disagree, because I think Blizzard needs to massively escalate the dimensions of the story. What wow desparately needs is its warhammer 40k moment, because I think we are too far into power scaling to keep the grounded vibe. Maybe I’m wrong of course, but I think we need an aggressive expansion of scale, where we are irrelevant again compared to the scale of the whole universe. Only other way I see it fixed is doing a big reset of the story. This middleground right now is not a good idea I think. We have dealt with too big powers now in the story, where I think we have to go way beyond the scope of Azeroth to keep a sense of tension. But yeah, otherwise resetting by doing a cataclysmic event is also a good option.
Or, some people just don’t like certain themes or topics.
The Godfather is considered one of the best pieces of cinema.
I don’t like the movie because I simply dislike gangster/maffia stories. I just don’t enjoy them (with very few exceptions).