Can I just say… It has been so refreshing not playing with the PvP addons. Only downside is that when they’re fixed, you’re disadvantaged if you don’t use them.
Ngl, I am 100% for the removal of addons in PvP. I’ve missed Gladius, but the in game frames are actually pretty clean. Other than that, I’ve not really missed anything else. Something else I noticed is how much easier it has been to win games when everyone’s ailed by no addons.
It’s actually improved my awareness not relying so much on them. Been fun
Literally nothing refreshing here… 2,4k+ xp players pop defensives after they took the entire burst and low xp people can’t even run straight forward. At this point I want to play with literal bots but not humans who are below bot level.
Also, idk what addons you were using, all my addons worked just fine.
Idk my game play is mostly unchanged addons are like a comfort food at this point since most classes have glaringly obvious visuals with most abilities
As others before me have put it the bad players still bad good player’s still play good
if they add a DR tracker, make it easier to see CDs and reduce VFX bloat also make it easier to make arena macros to quickly target players then yes no addons would be good.
But currently the game lacks many basic stuff for proper arena gaming
All those addons are too much game changing. Skillcap running advertisements to sell addon profiles. Its 1 time subscription and I can have them or I have to keep subscribing to use those addon settings? Im too lazy to setup all again.
That’s exactly the case, part of “skill” known before was proper understanding of enemy buffs and counterplay
Now 2.4 players have no need to track buffs in frames when there’s a WA screaming to pop def the moment enemy pops burst
I mean, awareness addons increase skill of any player by default
Personal resources/procs tracking addons reduce class skillcap also
I’d be 100% fine with no addons gameplay, blizz just need to add a proper dr tracker baked into their arena frames
There will be a backlash of players, playing 1.8 for set that will stuck at 1.6, mby thats why blizz not fixing it
Or mby they just don’t care bout pvp
Edit: Aeghis (mage arena streamer) did a no addon shuffle challenge some time ago, and that looked like a proper arena gameplay, almost how it looked in good old arena days
And it was definitely fun to watch without screen icons bloat, the only bad thing is that he had to make frames bigger to track all the stuff
No, obviously not but this is what’s happening right now. Mainly because the MMR is scuffed also because how free 2,4k was been in the past, the one or the other season and/or expansion.
Never needed addons in PvE.
When were these days? When the game had barely any buttons to press and everything was easy af? I have a friend who used to be 2,7k player in TBC (not classic) and in Shadowlands the guy couldn’t even hit 1,8k… People were simply back bad then while the game was easy.
Game changed and addons are simply quality of life, not some magic potion that boosts your rating 2k higher. Bad players are still bad without addons, while good players remain good players. Also, setting up your UI can be considered part of the skill too.
When ludaslab did the statistics in Shadowlands, iirc only around 5% were able to hit 2,1k or higher. If the addons are that huge and make the entire game so easy, how come the majority couldn’t even hit 2,1k?
By removing addons (or most of them) it’s not like people become more skillful or something. The majority will simply play worse, which will obviously ruin the gaming experience of most people, just for even playing with those people… while the skilled players will continue to stomp the majority. It’s not a win-win situation nor does it add fun to anyone.
That’s what should be the case but the reality is that most of the mad players can not even process the information. I have a friend who plays since pre-patch and these addons don’t help him at all even tho I made him some weakauras that literally a huge and blink in the middle of his screen. His brain simply can’t process the information.
I have another friend who plays for years already and couldn’t even hit 1,8k in Shadowlands without me literally calling him out every single button to press.
What addons should be doing is clear but what the players are doing with this information is another story. As said earlier, bad players will still stay bad and good players will still stay good. Removing of addons will probably just make more people quit. Remember all the complaints about the gear difference? What happened when it was changed? Right, the PvP player based decreased, to all down low. Why? I assume because, just like in WoD (when gearing was easy too), people were simply blaming the balance (as always), rerolling to something else, getting stomped again and then quitting because there was nothing else to play. Yet these players would of course never blame themselves and try to improve. They just quit.
Same with addons. People blame it now but without addons they will be even worse. So what will happen in the end? Will they suddenly try to improve their gameplay? I highly doubt that. They will reroll to every meta, get stomped again and just quit in the end again.
I watched some of it back then. It was everything else than old arena. Remember, he was playing without addons against people with addons and he had like 20%-30% (around 80% or 85% total) higher win rate (was somewhere over 2k when I checked back then). So he performed even better than with addons, which makes no sense.
But there could have also been scuffed MMR and he was playing against worse players, idk. Fact remains, good players will stay good, while bad players will stay bad. All it would do is ruining the gaming experience of the majority even more. What for? What is the end goal?
The goal is to make the view approachable for all players, this will be a huge W especially for streaming audience
I mean, every good competitive game restricts visual awareness changes, first of all it equals the skill making it an individual “true” number
Second is that a random player coming into wow will see the same frames n view so he can catch up more easily, just like you see the same picture in moba or shooter games
Third, if it affects nothing in majority of examples, then its more of a problem, than a good thing
I personally hate operating with addons but I setup em anyway just to neglect my awareness issues n lasiness to invest more into skill development
If theres no addons, u can literally bind the keys and get into the gameplay, but if you’re new, theres a ton of settings you need to go through, yuck, for sure it scares newcomers
Edit:
I personally believe addons are responsible for much harder and not clear raiding experience, we have 20 years of encounter difficulty increase, cause addons can make even hardest mechanic ez to operate
Just to add extra annoyance and to not create new topic. Add some tooltip to skills and items, which scales down or UP in PvP. Some did grind PVE items and nothing said its scales down in PVP, same was with conduits in SL. Wth is this? Every player must study in forums and blue posts about game ect?
I do have that and I did that with addons. Just because not literally everyone is doing to the level it pleases someone else, it doesn’t mean we have to remove addons… what the heck…
I know what you mean, I saw the streams of some people that is literally full with WeakAuras all over the places. Yes, that’s ugly and I don’t like that. But I also don’t have that. And I also saw the UI of tournament players, at the tournament with huge unit frames covering 50% of your screens and debuffs covering 25% of your screen. That’s literally NOT the better solution and I also don’t like that, so I don’t have it.
I have a clean UI that I can use for PvP and PvE that’s not covering my entire screen in order to get the information I need.
No, he won’t. That’s the whole point. In this case Blizzard would have to change the UI dramatically. Because all the defensive and offensive CDs you can pop are not visible enough for a new player. You would need at least something like BigDebuffs and it will be still not enough for a new player. If anything, the UI without addons will make it even harder for new players which will result in quitting the game faster.
Yes, I have to admit I hate setting up the addons too. Especially from scratch. But at the same time I know what the result is going to be and in the end it improves my gaming experience. I mean this is literally the reason why addons exist in the first place.
Ye but what gameplay? You can do that right now and you will get stomped. Especially a new players needs all the help from addons, not the veteran players who are stomping everyone (and will continue to do so, even without addons).
You try to argue that removing addons will somehow magically help the new players but the opposite will happen. All the help the addons provide is required by the new players, not the veterans. Or would you really try to argue and claim a new player has a higher chance against a veteran if both play without addons? I hope this is not something you would truly do and mean it…
I do not raid that much, only if my friends ask me for help but in my experience if I compare early expansions and the lastest ones… I mean… is not even something I’d call PvE in early expansions… at this point you can just place a dummy and let people hit it for 10 minutes… I also didn’t have any PvE addons in Shadowlands on my MW monk, not even DBM or similar and I was pulling 95%+ logs…
On this one I can agree tho, you should not need crazy PvE addons in order to raid but the bosses should not also be omega sleeper easy like previous expansions (classic, tbc, wotlk, cata)
You dont need that much addons cause u, like me, play for a long time, and well educated in cds n stuff alrdy
Thats my guess
But theres no such thing that “new player needs smth”, if blizz would ban addons blizz would come up with baked in bigdebuffs and dr tracker a decade ago
Every new player is stomped at start, but new player content is bgs, and theres a special place for new accounts with 0 honor lvl, till honor lvl 30 or 50, idk rly
But when I bought a new acc I’ve been surprised of such thing, and its good idea, these fresh accounts have some kind of their own non rated bg matchmaking
Edit:
Also for example in LoL, you cant even q ranked from the start, you need to get character pool and play a lot of nonranked
Ima totally fine that new player cant hop into arena and insta succeed
I highly doubt that’s something new WoW players want. Technically we don’t even have a system in the game for this. You’d need to separate non rated content and adjust the matchmaking I guess. But then again, in the end the result will be the same. The moment these new players jump in a proper match, they’ll understand how they didn’t learn anything and will get stomped. Also this will create an option for people to start new accounts and smurf, which, again, results in a bad experience for the new players while Blizz makes more money of it. So technically a horrible idea.
Also, from my person experience I know my friends wouldn’t like that. They 100% would not touch WoW if they knew we can’t play together from the start. And I am sure there are more people who think the same way.
Ye but that’s the case with and without addons. Removing addons is not doing anything to that. If anything it just makes it worse, so basically the new players stay bad for longer. Also, don’t forget that some (or even many?) people who play WoW get older and need this kind of help.
I just honestly can’t see a single valid argument why you should remove addons and how exactly it’s making the gaming experience better. (for the majority)
In MoP I barely used any addons, only Gladius, and OmniBar. At the time I was the highest rated on my server in 2v2. Battling with a Feral druid every week for the number 1 spot. It was fun.
Tbh, I’m going to dumb down my addons off the back of some not working. I think it may be possible to only see the DR tracker on Gladius, but I’ll have to play around with it. I much prefer the clean look and just looking out for Enemy and Friendly buffs, like I used to. Although I might also keep the enemy defensive tracker too… DR tracking and enemy defensive tracking, and kick tracking. Ditch the rest.
Might not be to everyone’s taste, but as soon as I installed a bunch of addons, particularly WA, I’ve had a less fun time. Its all personal preference. But even the best players say if you don’t have WA you’re at a disadvantage. Addons have never been so adventitious as they are now. I have a friend that was in one of the best raiding guilds doing race to world firsts etc, and he even said a lot of the PvE addons are insane, like you can set them up to tell you exactly where to stand to avoid a boss ability that hadn’t even happened yet - I don’t know the ins and outs of that because I’ve never really raided - but, it seems a little silly.
It’s kind of like not playing with a headset on. Going from all the sounds to just visual awareness. It tends to make no difference in my ability xD
I swear, noone needs help, I personally hate this way of thinking
Every interested/invested player is perfectly viable to develop till his skillcap
Not investing - not getting the reward for ppl more invested, and Im totally fine if ppl not progressing ‘without help’
Also helping the weak you help the strong also, so you come to where you begin before “helping”
If you could help only newcomers and keep restrictions for experienced players this could work, but thats just no
That’s the opposite experience I have. Most new players download ElvUI or get the UI of their streamers, have no clue how it functions and why some stuff is there, get overwhelmed and quit. Same goes for playing with the basic UI.
You don’t need much but you can make the UI in WoW very pleasant, which is a good thing in my book.
And that’s the huge issue which you skip in your theory. Most new players will NEVER become dedicated or invested in WoW. They simply give up before.
So why not keeping the addons? If you get invested, you’ll also get a proper UI with addons. It will stay clean and become more helpful. What exactly is wrong with that? Why do you want people to suffer without addons and force them to be even more dedicated than it has to be? What’s exactly is the point?
Wdym by that?
Well… ye. But removing addons is the exact opposite. You make it hard for newcomers while make the veterans stronger.
