Aggrend: Fix Spellcaster Gear Scaling please!

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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All i ask for is better scaling, and not just “we want to be stronger no matter how bad or good our gear is”
Most likely would this changes lead to a massive deacrease of base damage of spells, like -50% base damage, but better scaling with gear. otherwise it would be ofc too strong - i am not asking for getting all these things for free.

so after making that clear:

it is not a completely new topic here, but i will make a new attempt with some new ideas!

Problem: Melee classes (and hunters!) scale much more with gear because:

Problem 1: melees profit from Weapon Dps (Ferals excluded) and casters do not.

Solution: make weapons have much more spellpower (like in wotlk… factor x5 compared to armor items)

Problem 2: melees get dmg increase from basic stats and this makes them scale more with every “increases all stats by X%” buffs and auras.

Solution: make a new rune:
-Rune of empowered intellect and spirit: you gain 0.5 Spelldamage and healing for every point of Intellect you have and 0.5 spelldamage and 1 healing for every point of Spirit you have.

Problem 3. melees get much more crit chance from basic stats. (% spellcrit per int is a joke)

Solution: Double the amount of spellcrit you get from 1 intellect.

Problem 4: melees have Crit factor x2 for free, most casters must spend talent points to get there (and some even have to just live with x1.5!) and some melee specs can even increase to ~x2.2 with talents. or some other extras like flurry (is very overpowered) or bonus combo points on crits. some casters can also get bonus effects for crits, but these effects are weaker, and also the crit chance of casters is only half as high atm so profiting from these effects is less likely.

Solution: (idea taken from another player) make spellcrit factor x2 the new baseline instead of x1.5. and the talents that exist just stack upon this. (so possible crit factor is x2.5 for some specs - still not as strong as Flurry talent)

ofc these numbers need a checkup if they are too weak or too strong or “just right” before applying some of these things, and adjust the values. i just wanted to place the idea of these balancing options in your heads.

8 Likes
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Wow a post that is not related to the pvp reduction aura ! Nice :sweat_smile:

Yes the raid dps gap between melees and casters is already opening … it will grow further in p4 and endgame if they don’t make changes.

Easier option would be scale physical dps down with higher armor values for raid bosses, similar to gnomeregan. … but just ignoring the caster / melee dps gap would be a mistake and frustrating. (And giving just % overall dmg increases for casters is clearly not a useful solution - yes i am looking at you mr. Shadowform)

3 Likes
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Yes this would absolutely work too to make it less punishing for casters to be victims of inferior scaling logic.
But it would be just a medicine against a symptom instead of being the cure for the problem.

1 Like
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If they that easy way and just take care of the symptoms instead of curing the sickness it would be ok to me because expecting a total spellpower scaling rework is seriously too much. Even if the ideas are pretty good an understandable.
Some time ago i was making a post about spellpower scaling with dot effects, because these spells are extra weak. Nobody really cared :man_shrugging:

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Hunters scale with gear is hilarious to me. 56 agi or something for 1 crit :smiling_face_with_tear:. Hunter scaling in classic formula is abysmal.

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They could scale up the crit to be 2x not 1.5x and talents add to increase it higher, this would be the simplest instant change.

Also a change to how the spell power coefficients work so generally they work as (cast time/ 3.5 ) is the coefficient but this could instead be (cast time/3). Maybe cap spell pushback so we aren’t as impacted by auras or forced to instant cast in PVP?

scaling armor up in raids wouldn’t be a bad shout but I think the adjustments above would be easier assuming all these variables are formula driven.

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It is 53.
And for casters it is 60 int so it is worse.
And hunters also get 2 rangedAP for 1 agi so the profit you get for 1 Agi is like 5times more than a caster gets for 1 Int because the 19 max mana is almost worthless as a warlock :man_shrugging:
Even after this change “get 0.5Spellpower for every point of Int” + double the spellcrit scaling with Int" then agi would be better for hunter than Int for warlock

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This would also work yes to solve the overall scaling problem - but this would not solve the "we dont get enough spellcrit chance " and neither the “upgrading caster weapon feels extremely weak” problem.

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This would come out as about +15% more dps generated by spellpower.
So to they should reduce base dmg of spells by -15% to actually make it a “scaling fix” and not just a straight “buff casters”

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I agree with almost everything you said. The point I disagree on you is I don’t think it is a good idea to only buff caster scaling, but warrior/rogue scaling should be nerfed as well. I think this is very important because of pvp and the challengingness of lower tier PvE content. Damage scales much better than mitigation, so we end up with the current burst meta melting players and bosses alike. A lvl 50 20 man raid had naxx level boss healths and it was doable, should tell you enough.

Make weapon upgrade exciting for everyone, hell yeah. Even for feral.:slight_smile:
Make caster scaling on pair with melee, absolutely.
Make everybody the insane damage machine as naxx warrior was, please don’t.

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It also would not fix the “increases all stats by X% is almost no dps change for casters” problem

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Ferals and casters are in the same boat.
Upgrading the wepaon is almost not noticeable in overall dps output.
This can be a blessing too beacuse there is much lower pressure on us to farm weapon upgrades. But the bad side of this weapon scaling problem is definetly overshading the good side.

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No spell damage on Spirit.
Int yes.
No + heal on Int.
Spirit yes. + Mana reg.
And make the Incursion Gear non class Gear.
Just Cloth, Leather, Mail and Plate.
Lets the Players decide.

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we can talk about spell damage scaling when something is done about spell damage in general.

there is no way to mitigate it so casters are super strong in pvp.
armor does nothing against spell damage, and every class and their mom got at least 1 spell damage nuke now.

warriors have become a joke as a result, but really, any class that relies on armor has.

add spell damage mitigation to spirit, then you can have your scaling.

also, be careful what you wish for, because this means hybrids will scale as well.
i.e mental dex for shaman would immediately doubledip through spell damage scaling from a stat and make shaman OP again.

and then the “solution” becomes “oh well then we just nerf shaman (again)” and ultimately it ends up only benefitting the “real” casters, essentially you’re asking for a straight up buff to an already really strong playstyle.

the vast majority of deaths in pvp are from spells thrown at me from far out of sight, im sure its the same for everyone else, rarely do i actually get clapped by physical attacks, unless hunter.

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Ever heared about resistence? 10resist is 2.5% dmg reduce

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you are the worst. literally don’t know what you are talking about so let me cite the wiki and be done with it.

When hit by a spell, characters have two chances to resist the spell. The first chance is based on the character’s level. If much higher level than the attacking caster, there is a significant chance to resist the caster’s spell, but if much lower level, there is a minimal chance to resist the spell (minimum of 1%). If characters make this resistance chance, they are completely unaffected by the spell.

The second chance to resist is based on resistance score and the level of the caster. The higher the resistance score in relation to the level of the attacking caster, the higher the average resistance percentage, up to a maximum of 75%. Against most spells, this resistance percentage is the straight % chance to completely resist the spell. Against direct-damage spells (spells that deliver their full damage upon impact, such as Fireball, Mind Blast, and Earth Shock), this resistance is the percentage of damage resisted on average.

When hit by a direct-damage spell, characters have a chance to resist 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, or 0% of the spell’s damage, depending on resistance score in relation to the level of the attacking caster. Average percentage of damage resisted is the weighted average of resistance percentages for each level of damage resistance (100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, and 0%). Using, as an example, a fire resistance score of 250 vs. a level-50 mage’s fire spell, a character would on average resist roughly 75% of the damage of that spell (as can be deduced by calculating the weighted average for the corresponding column in the example table below). To further the example, if characters had fire resistance of 100, they would, on average, resist roughly 30% of the spell’s damage.

source: https ://classic-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Resistance

i’d appreciate if you at least fact checked your own BS the next time you decide to open your yapper. especially when - like in this instance - you are flat out WRONG.

also, even if resistances worked the way you think they work, where the hell is my resistance+ on my gear?
to fight casters in pvp we need a bunch of +all resistance gear and that doesn’t exist, and the resistance gear that DOES exist has no other stats on it, so like what the f…

using it will just gimp us even more than without having it, hence why you don’t see anyone gearing for resistance in pvp, because its bad.

now, if they flat out added something like +50 all resistances for 2 set and +75 for 5 set pvp gear we would have our REAL mitigation, but casters would cry bloody foul, as anyone in pvp gear would flat out counter any and all spell damage they can dish out, which is also bad and unfair on the other end of the spectrum.

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Clearly not reading the text.
It says “better gear scaling at cost of base damage of spells” and not "make casters just stronger "

And yes, adding about 25% spell resist would be a good option for pvp gear at least.
So according to that formula that 250 at level 50 is 75% then there should be about 85 spell resistance on the pvp set.

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why would you do something like that though?

casters in classic aren’t designed around scaling. they never were, and that was never a problem because casters are broken strong in all aspects of the game.

dude, did you see what fire mages could pull off back in the day?
they don’t NEED scaling, their spells are built to be strong enough as they are baseline.

that being said, this is SOD and im sure its coming at 60.
probably in the form of a rune like mental dex for shaman or the sheath of light-whatever thing for paladin.

the thing is; those classes are hybrid and they always scaled super poorly which was one of the major complaints the classes had going into SOD.
now that this has been taken care of, all the other casters feel unfairly treated and left behind.

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I am aware of this, and i am also aware that on average this results in mitigation of around 2.5% per 10 resist, you even haave it in your wall of text.

Sooooooooo where is you problem exactly?

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that’s not true though, because unless you meet the breakpoints as per the formula, you gain nothing for any excess resistances. so no, 10 resistance does not in fact = 2.5% mitigation. you have to meet the breakpoints for it to take effect (which is a dumb system btw).

1 Like