The irony.
You can count patch numbers, I can count months, we still have different opinions. If an actor dies 60% into the movie you call it was at the end with little impact, I say it was like half into the movie and a big thing. Percentage wise, I would be more correct. However, there is no doubt at all, that RDF was part of wotlk. If you dont like it, because it doesnt fit your narrative, thats ok too.
It’s not irony when it’s an observation of reality.
Ok but this is an mmorpg with content released in patches an where people regularly take breaks during content draught.
And if the last main raid is released 60% into an expansion and then there is a 10 month long period when nothing really happens, then it’s at the end.
RDF wasn’t part of the overall WOTLK experience.
The explaination of why you think you’re right
Did I get you correct? So your interpretation of reality is the only correct one and this reality is that any RDF run, be it with or without crossfaction, is an unbearable, toxic hellhole, that makes the game unplayable for everyone, while doing any run with random players from the new LFG-beta tool isnt?
You’re comparing 8k players with a potential 54k players. That is not going to give you the same results in the slightest. You don’t even have half the population of the most popular classic realms with your highest population server, and that’s before taking into account the cross realm aspect.
The player pool in classic vs retail however is similar, classic is most likely larger.
The behaviours of no RDF has had enough time to become a social norm in classic.
Retail has the behaviours attributed to the introduction of RDF.
That is why they are a good comparison.
Your argument against it being “But they’re different games” is meaningless: they have the same gameplay loop, they have the same structure, the same incentives, and the player pool came from the same target audience so the motivations to play are similar.
Whether the dungeon is to kill blood elves and mana wyrms or drusk doesn’t change the behaviours exhibited in the process of forming the dungeon group. Having two legendary’s vs instance farmed gear doesn’t change the behaviours exhibited in the process of forming a group.
That’s why retail vs classic is a good case study to examine the behaviours and social norms exhibited during the group making process, and why your private servers simply cannot build that comparison.
This is what you claim, like that nothing really happend, while 2 raids were released. Do you realize we are like 13-14 months into tbc right now? Thats quite the time, time-wise comparable to the “end of wotlk”.
(I suppose you mean cross realm)
There are 4 things that makes RDF into a toxic hellhole.
1: The big one, cross realm. Makes people toxic in general.
2. The buff, it actively punishes people for playing together.
3. No lockout. It actively punished people from doing dungeons the normal way that have lockouts and no reward.
4. Teleportation to the dungeon. It makes people lazy with very little consequences of leaving or being toxic.
Remove those 4 things and suddenly RDF would be all ok. Automated group finder. Same realm, random dungeon with a special reward, no buff and you have to travel to the dungeon and put in some effort.
But that’s not what people ask for here. They ask for all those bad things from launch.
In my opinion these are the two biggest problems. If they removed the cross realm aspect, and removed the teleportation to the dungeon, I would be all for it.
But I’m too sleepy to explain it in detail, time for bed. Keep fighting the good fight.
Another prove that you didn’t read my first post and some answer.
I don’t care about cross-serv. If it’s the argument for you to not implemente it so =>
If you have any argument anti-RDF, please check the link : https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/en/wow/t/all-complain-about-rdf-are-outdated/370212
All could be addressed, while the 4th point holds little impact as I just explained.
I already made a topic regarding these changes 2 months ago, and they addressed most of your points. I think I forgot about the 5% damage buff though, that I agree is not needed for the feature and is better off removed.
Its clear to me too, that of course its impossible to add a no lockdown RDF early into the expansion. Changes are needed, if its was to be introduced earlier and to offer more choices, like using crossrealm or not, wouldnt hurt anyone. All the effort Blizzard is using to make a new tool thats better off being copy pasted from retail, could have been better invested into making the RDF into something between what you and I describe.
Ok so you are not actually asking for RDF then? You are asking for a new custom group finder tool for Wotlk. No one is against that. It would be great to help people find groups for dungeons.
Pick a damn lane.
You either want RDF or you don’t.
Triva please stop feeding this troll.
I already answered to him that we can disable cross-serv and the buff, i also talked about the Teleportation and he just ignored my post.
Let this troll alone.
Ok so just to be 100% clear.
You are NOT asking for RDF in Wotlk. I’m glad about that.
You are asking for a custom group finder system in Wotlk classic.
No one is against that. You should make a thread and make those suggestions to Blizzard.
They are actually working on one by the way.
I think I should have realized when he replied to the only part of my comment I even said there is no reason to discuss it anymore. Its cringe that the main argument is that RDF is a “toxic hellhole”, but playing with the exact same players via LFD-tool is a pleasant social activity.
Please dude don’t play with words for everyone RDF is principally the tools that let us automatically find a group for us and teleporting us in the dg. No one cares about the rest.
Even if you remove the cross realm aspect, your experience on the private servers is still not an adequate comparison.
1.) It’s still half the size of the larger servers like Firemaw, with that difference in numbers will come a level of anonymity that isn’t there on your private server.
2.) Private server plays have played that content for multiple years, some of the toxic behaviours that happen in RDF due to performance won’t have a chance to occur because people are so familiar with the content. Not even 10% of the classic players will have that level of experience.
3.) People on private servers go there specifically for a love on wotlk in particular. A good amount of people on classic won’t have played it before and won’t have that attachment. That changes the motivations for playing, which changes the behaviour.
4.) Not everyone has played wotlk for 10 years, so building the atmosphere and the world story-telling is still a vital part of the experience.
I know all your arguments, I read them all. But you aren’t making them from the perspective of “what’s best for classic and its community”, you’re making it from the perspective of “What’s best for me and my twelve years of experience”.
Not everyone will have played for twelve years. You cannot judge the best experience for all based on that.
I’m not going to insult you and say its arrogant, but I want to be very clear: you are not able to judge what is best for the majority of those that will play classic BECAUSE of your experience on private servers. Those of us arguing against RDF aren’t doing so for whats best for our experience, we’re doing it for what is best for the community’s experience. That’s an important distinction.
Ok, puh. You are not asking for RDF in Wotlk. This is good news.
On the topic of the custom automatic group finder that you are actually asking for. Would it be ok if we weren’t teleported to the dungeon? Becasue if that would be cool, then everyone in this thread are on the same track and are in fact agreeing with one another. The topic has just been unclear.
Quite a lot of people would be ok with that, blizz even promised new group finder for TBC …
Then they didnt do it and instead spent whole expansion on this absolute garbage retail trash they are planning for wotlk …
So its either leave the RDF in which is fine …
Or wait for blizz to stop being incompetent garbage company and pay attention to their game and actually invest time and effort into their product …
Which is never going to happen …
To be fair some players might actually experience this.
Because those players are actually the ones, that make the game an unbearable, toxic hellhole that is unplayable for everyone else. XD
For a toxic player in 100% of his runs there will be a toxic player.
Do you want me to tell you some anecdotes that I have experienced in RDF during Wotlk?