A lot of them probably never even tried the RDF. They quit when it was released, because it didn’t fit their idea of WoW. Later on they’ve read some stuff about how the community changed on the board and blamed it on the tool they never used.
And that’s the WotLK experience they are talking about.
The anti-RDF people are so out of touch with reality and logic. They live in their fairytale world and only see what they want to see. So it’s kinda pointless to argue with them. They just refuse to see the reality.
Cross realm is a non issue too. Even on the smallest server people only really know about 1-3% of the playerbase. That’s not enough for a connected community to exist. There also is no meaningful backlash for bad behaviour in dungeons even without RDF. You can post about toxic players in the server discord or write in LFG chat, but the majority of players won’t care. So the toxic player might have a few players, that ignore him. But it’s just a fraction of the server population.
And even if he would ruin his reputation to a point, where he can’t play anymore, he can just make a new alt and play as if nothing happened.
These threads are a waste of time. People think we are still in 2008 or something and still hurt of how the game ended up. Yeah, we all are but this can happen. I think that WotLK without an automatic matchmaking and teleporting system will make the majority unhappy. Once more I will say that lack of the teleportationis a problem in Beta. People are bored to travel. They try their best to avoid travelling. They ask “socially” to others summoning them. Especially tanks… Imagine after Day#10 or so spamming heroics.
There is nothing social on whispering “inv plz”, nor bleeding your eyes in a public channel (among gdkp ads, boosting ads, an*al jokes etc) trying to find the ad you are interested in and then being fast enough to whisper the leader. Nothing. People that use RDF do not have a guild or do not want to go with the guild or whatever reason. The rest can use their guild chat and organize millions of runs. RDF will not affect them.
Social is having a chat in the dungeon. Or in a discord, or in guild chat. Although for me, being social means talking with strangers not guildmates.; this is a given. And you know, if you are in the mood you can talk. And if others are in the mood they may answer and have fun! This is social. Social is not FORCED and should not be FORCED either by others or the game itself. Social is nice (at least for me) but there are bad days (at work for instance) that make me just play my favorite game without much talking. This is perfectly OK. But obviously it is not OK for some other players that want you to play the way they do.
RDF is a tool. Nothing more. It will not transform you to a party animal nor an introvert guy. It is a way to make things easier. Can it be abused? YES. History has shown that cross-server thing did hurt the game because of some people behavior. Is it RDF to blame. NO. It is the PEOPLE. Every system in the game can be abused. We are very creative to inflict anguish to others in the game. The tools are not to blame.
Even without RDF the leader can kick you easy to bring a friend (please don’t “counter-argument” with the vote kick it is not the same and I am not interested in tool mechanics. I am talking about people behavior), paladin tanks will leave after Hadronox without any deserter penalty. DKs will use Path of Frost in Azjol or Gundrak jumps to the water to kill you (BTW they do it all the time at Beta), Druids will abuse terrain bugs to gain advantage in WSG and so many other things that are wrong in the game. So many. You cannot “school” people to behave by removing RDF. People are already that way in this game. You will not get back the “feeling from back then”, sadly. I wish we could.
What we should though, is look at the game with the eyes of 2022. As with all things in life.
Im positive its not even about RDF, its about showing power that the vanilla+ community is still there (just not on vanilla servers anymore).
If the influences of RDF really were a concern, they could have addressed these issues like I discussed before:
Daily heroic lockouts until 3.3.0
Crossrealm-checkbox, so it is optional
Removing the rewards until patch 3.3.0 or only rewarding the 1st random dungeon instead of using the specific daily-heroic quest
Debatable, but the teleport-function could be removed for max level characters
With this, nearly all problems would have been solved while keeping the upsides of the RDF. However, once the solutions are mentioned, the case is dismissed. Simply because RDF became a proxy for wotlk design vs vanilla design.
Any vanilla fan thinks its impossible to back down now and compromise on RDF, because for them its the same as admitting defeat in the “design war”. This is the reason why its not about arguments anymore, or maybe it never really was.
I agree it’s just a witch hunt. You can’t talk logic with a mob with pitchforks and torches.
That’s why I said a while ago in another thread. Even if the RDF could cure cancer and end famine in the world, those people would still try to build arguments against it.
It’s not really about the RDF for them, it’s something more personal, that’s why they can’t see clearly.
You might be right that it’s actually about Vanilla vs WotLK for them and that the RDF is just a proxy.
You are one of the only ones I remember to have the stance “later or never” and maybe Vanillataur, who wants it to be released as it was, patch 3.3.0. Its true that you were someone that at least didnt deny the feature like it was the worst disease ever. However, the ones against RDF, but willing to fix it, are nearly zero percent measured at the amount of posts of RDF critics.
And you are one of the few ones that are willing to compromise on the pro RDF side, where it seems to be a few people that would accept having it come later and a bunch of people wanting it in from day 1. In both (maybe all 3 camps) we have people who are not willing to try to compromise and thats sad for sure.
Compromise is fine as long as it has scope and is has some value. Not because it might not hurt some egos. Why later? If you don’t believe it will hurt the community, it does not matter if it is from start. If you want later, because this is how it was back then, you again see the game as it was in 2008. And on top of this, blizzard already make changes to the game. Naxx boss hp or the huge change to demo locks DP. And I see Noone complain.
I like these changes. But I feel I am consistent. I like changes that might make the game better and adapt to how things are. Are you consistent? Or you want to travel to the instance and summon the tank all the time?
I really don’t see the problem here. As others have said already, it’s not about RDF, it’s about people. Btw if Blizzard put RDF you could still choose whether to use it or not, while you won’t be able to if it is not going to be implemented.
So why should a player ruins another player experience by saying “I don’t want RDF”. Just don’t use it, play the game as you wish and let people like me who want it do the same!
I experienced WoW without RDF for a few years now.
It was just as great as I expected.
Pleaes keep telling me that I didn’t have the expreiences I had. It’s rather amusing. Especially if you really expect to convince anyone with this.
People are making the asinine argument that hurr durr you can still do premade dungeons, when in REALITY where we actually live and play and interacting in the actual game, no you can not. People will not be available for normal premade dungeons when they can just click a button, get teleported to the dungeon and get 15% damage buff.
RDF is not a feature that is added to the game. It’s a feature that is taken away from the game. And the only positive is convince. You want to slaughter the game for convenience.
He doesn’t think that he can queue up with a group that he have manually invited. THAT was what he had an issue with…
About the reward and the +15% damage: They can totally remove both of those for all I care. I want the convenience: guaranteed group and teleport in and out.
And no, I do not want to
I want to keep the game as is. You are the one that want to slaughter it. For a fantasy that no longer is.