All raids need to be very short

Many do like raids and have fun within there groups of friends/guildie’s or community why should they be removed from the game because you do not like them?

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They still are. The first major chapter of story of the Incarnates ended with Razsageth’s pyrrhic victory in Vault of the Incarnates, where she dies but unleashes I-don’t-care-kron, Failrak and Betrayanoth.

The story of Sarkareth, which was left hanging in the Dragonflight prepatch, ended in Aberrus.

Amirdrassil progessed the story of Night Elves being forced to become hobos in Stormwind which started in BFA.

And the Dawn of the Infinite megadungeon has set up stuff of the next expansion(s).

As for people not wanting to learn the mechanics, can you blame them? Up to TBC all bosses were tank and spank and sometimes avoid stuff on the floor. Ulduar was the first raid with mechanics that couldn’t be overcome with gear alone, and from there it has gone massively more complex. It’s not a hyperbole that the 1st bosses of LFR have more mechanics than any boss did up to Naxx80. And no, your average casual player who logs in during the weekends is not going to do research and install specialized addons and weakauras.

Here is the source of the problems in wow.
Many players, and devs, cant imagine a replacement for the current system created in 2004, based on mmos from even earlier, a system that only few % of the playerbase participate in.

If wow wont get modernized, it wont have a real future.

For the sake of argument, can we dig deeper into this?
I’m by no means an expert when it comes to game design, but what would work?

I like doing raids, but I don’t have the time or mental capacity anymore to commit myself 4 nights a week,3-4 hours every session to clear a raid.
Raiding with friends however, I am happy to tank and clear a raid in 2 hours.

If we take way raids, what would you prefer then?
long quest chains ala FFXIV relics?
Something like mage tower?

I wastly prefer solo contents over raids and dungeons with other ppl. I have a super nice raid Guild and they let me join when i want…bjt still i prefer solo contents

I also play ff14 and everquest.

What i would love is dungeon like solo event. E.g I love going into a big amazing raid alone. Kael Drakkal is an ice giant castle in evertquest. I love going there. Exploring every nook and cranny.

I don’t know if this could be possible in wow but i would not mind going into something large and discovering solo. Even make it possible to log and do it over several days if i prefered that.

No idea how to make such a feature work in wow.

But even wow themselves know that the majority of their player base prefer dolo content. It was said in an interview.
So they do need to do something to meet ppls preferable playstyle

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Mobs in between bosses should stay. And I quite enjoy the walks from boss to boss. I think they should start making raids zone sized actually.

I would like to see them add stuff like hidden treasure chests into raids though. Or maybe a random room in a castle raid could be open randomly and you kill extra mobs for chance of some cool treasure chest thinggy.

I mean they could, but apply a 300% speed buff outside of boss arenas and reduce trash mobs to a minimum because I agree that they aren’t interesting or challenging and just add time to the run.

Happy side note, this puts an end to mythic BoEs and kills pay to win :joy_cat:

Most mechanics are simple if you read the journal but I suppose that’s the tier of players were talking about. Wow shouldn’t be dumbed down because people Cba learning how to play

Again I reiterate; it’s not that mechanics are hard. Some players do not want to have to read stuff before playing something. They like to learn as they play it. They just want to fire up the game and play. It’s what they did when they first entered the World of Warcraft, and it’s what they still do today. They don’t want to use DBM, they don’t want to install damage meters, they don’t want to change their UI to maximize information through-put.

And that’s fine. They will stay in the easier modes of the game. Just like I do.

-=EDIT=-
Some 30 years ago in the era of NES and Sega Master System, games came in cases that also had booklets. Some of those booklets were almost 30-40 pages long. I used to read all of it before playing the game (and English is not my mother-tongue, so half of what was written flew over my head). But my father did not, he’d play the games and learn how to overcome obstacles by dying and retrying.
Later I found out that my peers would not read the booklets either, I was the exception that did that.

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This is also why they added story mode in TWW. You get to experience the end of the raid as a scenario style experience.

Early Xbox games also had this but then they got rid and instead replaced it with massive updates required to just play. I miss proper console gaming :sob: not that that’s an issue my Xbox died the other day I think :joy:

Also I get your point about mechanics not being hard but my concern is if you over simplify raiding it will kill the enjoyment of it for many people vs making it more accessible for certain other “players”

More boss teleporters would be nice. I personally like big long raids because sometimes they can be repurposed as placeholders for RP. :see_no_evil:

They have always been in game since buyable tier 1 in classic so that point is really moot and not what the thread is about.

Mythic BoEs have been bind on pickup for the first 4 weeks of a tier since DF launched.

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Really? Didn’t realise they changed that

They originally also planned to have BoE drops centre around minibosses placed intermittently throughout the raid as opposed to just on all trash mobs but they kinda forgot about that after vault…

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BoE Trash Drops Aberrus Will be BoP on Mythic Difficulty - Wowhead News

I do think it would be better to have a 4 boss raid every 3 months than an 8 boss one every 6 months.

I dont think its technically possible.

But even if it was, in reality it will be bad for the players.
No one will have the time to gear up in raids since they only got 12 runs before the next raid.

Oh? How did you go about buying them with real money in classic in a terms of service complying way?
Your point is moot. The token is what changed it.