I warn you : if you are not Human Rogue and you plan PvP in TBC or WOTLK, delete your character.
They’ll tell you that Alliance has less players (this is false : proof here https://ironforge.pro/servers), Zug Zug is the easy mode, blablabla. Just check Warcraftlogs and see how many Horde guilds are doing well in Naxx and AQ40 speedrun.
It’s not all guilds are bad, it’s because threat cap in Classic make things way harder as Horde. You have no errors allowed in your raid : no bubble, no BOP, no lay of hands, no salva, no kings that scale with everything, no divine intervention to save your body.
Now, in TBC both factions have Paladins and Shamans, very nice. Now the issues is PvP : if you are not playing Human, you shot yourself in your feet, especially as double DPS. Perception is an instant-win if you play Rogue+x vs Rogue+x. You have free opener, that mean instant win at high rating.
Now in WOTLK, if you are NOT playing Human, you can’t play in arena. Period. They have a 3rd trinket kekw. Everyone and their moms play Human on WOTLK pserver, and there’s a reason : having 1 more trinket slot that your opponent is one of the easiest way to auto-win.
If you really want to play Horde, you are the true hero.
And yet Horde are still the strongest PvP faction in Classic and TBC. Alliance was finally given a STRONG PvP racial come WoTLK after being underdogs for the life span of WoW at the time. Considering Horde had AoE Stun, Stun Resistance, AoE Silence, Immunity to Fear/Charm/Sleep for such a long time I’ll happily welcome Every Man For Himself when WoTLK comes because quite frankly, before the introduction of this racial no one who was serious about PvP would roll Alliance.
It’s not all guilds are bad, it’s because threat cap in Classic make things way harder as Horde. You have no errors allowed in your raid : no bubble, no BOP, no lay of hands, no salva, no kings that scale with everything, no divine intervention to save your body.
It’s not harder. Is it hard to look at a threat meter? Nope. Even if you pull threat there is a potion called Limited Invulnerability I suggest you stock up that is if you manage to somehow pull threat from a fully WB Fury/Prot Warrior. As for Lay on Hands - you stack Shamans who all have NS, have the best AoE healing in the game, more wbs, more offensive/damage increasing abilities/totems.
The true heroes are Alliance players who played through Classic on PvP servers during P2 and those that will go into TBC arena with a clear disadvantage on racials. One race/class combo doesn’t make up for that.
It was fun reading this though, perhaps I can get you a kleenex and a cup of hot cocoa while you tell me how tough Classic has been for Horde players.
Horde are by no means stronger in PvP, back in p2 when horde was twice as many as the alliance we were constantly crushing them even though they always had the numbers :D. They’re only option was for 10 people to camp solo players. Multiple r14 horde players straight out re-rolled alliance, because the amount of bad/rude horde players is much higher than alliance…
Double DPS comps are not really meta in TBC Arena 2v2. Rogue + X, for example, tends to get countered pretty hard by Warrior + RDruid, and Warrior + RDruid is much better as Horde than it is as Alliance.
Even in 3v3, triple Perception on Rogue/Mage/Spriest is good but not quite as good as triple Will of the Forsaken
Not on average. The problem with those combos is that rogue is basically useless both vs Warrior and vs RDruid. The former can beat you 1 on 1 consistently, and the latter can dispel all your poisons and outheal you regularly, plus CC etc. You might have a better chance beating Arms + RDruid as Spriest + Mage or SPriest + Warlock than with any Rogue comp.
This isn’t to say Rogue comps aren’t competitive period, but when the arguably top comp is so hostile to Rogues to begin with, it feels weird to argue Perception is the best racial to have in TBC Arena. And this only gets more and more true as we progress through TBC phases. Not even glaives can redeem rogues once those warriors and druids are fully decked in S3 or S4
I played a female orc warlock as an Alt during late Cataclysm…and tbh. I really disliked the casting animation. As for troll females, they are fine as far as casting goes, but I tried a female troll warrior once, and the akward, stiff-legged gait really ticks me off.
Tauren…yeah, okay, I can live with them, male or female, but they cannot be Warlocks or Rogues so…yeah, not for me I’m afraid. And Blelfs are out of the question, sorry, but I do have my pride after all
I’ve not said it’s bad. I’ve said it’s not good or dominant to the point of justifying picking Ally side just for Perception. Having Will of the Forsaken for Warriors/Priests/Warlocks is generally more useful, and so is having War Stomp over Shadowmeld
As I said Perception is great on Human Rogue but it’s 1 Class/Race combo overall Horde have much stronger racials I’d rather WoTF in Arena OVER perception simply down to the amount of Warlocks that will be running around and Disc Priests in mirror RMP comps and to a lesser extent Warriors with Int shout.
I’d also rather have War Stomp on a Druid/Shaman over shadowmeld or a really poor casted HoT.
On a Warrior I’d rather be Orc for the extra stun resistance due to all the other Warriors and some Rogues who will be running Mace spec and stunning you for an eternity. Even as Hunter I’d prefer Orc for Arena down to the indirect nerf to Stoneform by making Blind no longer poison and a psychical ability.
So ya, think your over selling perception personally as WoTF is the single greatest racial overall for TBC arena.
And yet when the Alliance stop crying about map layouts and Horde racials and actually try to organise themselves in PvP they’re just as good - if not better than - Horde players.
Why? Because they have the superior racial abilities.
Sure we get Hardiness and WOTF, but you’re forgetting that Hardiness is wholly dependant on RNG and WOTF does nothing against stuns or slows, and whilst Shamans are good they burn through their mana incredibly quickly.
Meanwhile the Alliance get Stoneform which is basically an I-Win button against Rogues (and Death Knights in Wrath), Escape Artist which is pretty much the best racial for Warriors and casters in the game, Perception which is absolutely incredible for Rogue v Rogue fights, Fear Ward which is basically a portable WOTF and Holy Paladins, the most efficient healers and best support class in the game.
Alliance do not have it nearly as bad as they let on, the only thing keeping them back is their defeatist attitude and instant gratification problem.
No one’s talking about AV in this conversation. The topic is about the OP claiming Alliance to be the strongest PvP faction due to racials until Cata which is simply bullshizzle. There is a reason Horde held the majority on PS’s and they had to offer Alliance free mounts and Seal of Blood to try fix the faction imbalance.
Why? Because they have the superior racial abilities.
Yes, almost every ability in the game is based on RNG whether it hits or not so not much of an argument really. Also it doesn’t matter if WoTF does nothing against slows or stuns, it’s still incredibly powerful and cripples Alliance Priests and Locks just like Hardiness completely cucks Alliance Rogues.
As I said Stoneform gets a stealth nerf in TBC when Blind gets changed from poison.
Escape Artist is completely over hyped, it’s not that good. It’s got a 0.5s cast time and removes snares and slows…great but if it was made to be on par with Horde racials it would be INSTANT and give 4-5 seconds of immunity to slows and roots abilities. Also Hardiness is much better in general for Warrior.
Haven’t even touched on War Stomp or Arcane Torrent either.
Please don’t talk to me about racials. I know where every race stands in PvP and which faction has it better I’ve played both factions through Classic, TBC and Vanilla got a character to Rank 14 over 100k HK’s on just that character also have other 60’s I PvP with and a lot of twinks in every single bracket for both factions. I’ve spent the vast majority of my time playing nothing but PvP and have experienced it from both sides so you won’t convince me that Alliance racials are on par with Horde racials in PvP because it just ain’t true.
