Why are there 11 alliance per horde in warmode in BFA zones?
Lfg effect. Both sides have it. Could also be player distribution in zone, 40 Horde spread out, 20 Alliance in one location, 20 spread.
Why didnt you ask that question 2 months ago when ratio was like 40 horde / 1 alliance player?!
6 Likes
This is the biggest problem I have right now. Alliance are encouraged to group up for aoo the moment they enter Warmode after reset, while Horde isnāt.
This creates a situation where the Horde is still the majority, but spread out and weaker because of it, while the Alliance is focused together, and stronger because of it.
What this means for the average Horde Warmode player? Well, they get killed once or twice and then they phase into another shard because not enough people can be bothered to fight back if they know the opponent is getting rewarded for it, while they themselves are not.
If you want to wpvp Alliance is superior right now. More rewards, more content (aoo quest and tons of groups to join all throughout the week). As a Horde player that likes wpvp this just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
4 Likes
Doesnāt it make you want to form a raid and hunt down Alliance freeloaders?
Sure. And I did plenty of that this week at the port of Zandalar. But, Iād rather have similar wpvp objectives like the Alliance, so I can more easily participate instead of having to wait for an ally party to show up.
An Ally wpvper just has a lot more immediate acces to wpvp at the moment because of aoo. Even if you completed the quest already, you can always join a group if just want some wpvp. Horde doesnāt have that. We do have A Call To Arms, sure. But thatās restricted to one zone.
And personally, it just feels less fun to fight people that really are just there to complete aoo, and then leave again. It doesnāt feel like winning or beating them. Theyāre there for the gear only, Itās not about the fight, and they will get the gear no matter how many times you kill them.
5 Likes
You see the difference is, horde were WPvPāing for nothing more than a 10% bonus. Alliance complained about this when all they had to do was turn on WM in the same numbers as horde to compete.
Its taken 400-385 free loot and 15-30% bonus for alliance to turn on WM. When alliance do this in numbers, there are good PvP fights, Alliance dominating certain areas, but, as soon as they have their loot, and the bonus drops, they seem to turn WM off again. Why?
Alliance have shown they can compete. They have shown they can bring numbers to a fight. Why not leave it that way? Why turn WM off as soon as you dont get free loot and a 30% bonus?
6 Likes
Maybe we will be back to 15% and better wpvp! Some alli will turn off, then after a week or two or three Horde that turned off will turn back on, back to 20%, repeat. At each pass, hopefully a % of Horde non wpvpers will leave it off, so we can get eu faction balance. Need that for lfg and avoiding overflow shards.
I donāt think the battle is in persuading Horde to turn WM off. Most horde I see have had it turned on for the whole expansion. Whether theyāre PvP players or not they just accept that PvP might happen when theyāre playing solo.
The battle is in convincing Alliance to KEEP WM turned on when there ISNāT free loot and 20-30% bonus on the table.
Its very noticeable to me that when the alliance bonus drops and thereās no quest, Alliance simply vanish from WPvP. Iāve done plenty of Invasions and not seen a single alliance player.
As soon as the quest appears again and the bonus goes up. BOOM! Alliance raids camping quests and flight paths and some really good toe to toe PvP fights in places like Drustvar.
Since the alliance rewards were implemented alliance have had a bonus ranging between 15% and 30%, a Heroic level piece of gear and 3-4? 385 pieces and yet i seems none of this has persuaded alliance to leave WM turned on.
All this time horde have had nothing more than the original 10% bonus and yet leave WM on 24/7 for the whole expansion.
It seems Blizzards āfixā of offering alliance incentives doesnāt actually persuade alliance to leave WM on but rather toggle it on and off when the rewards are good enough.
3 Likes
Because I quit 1month into BFA and recently resubbed. Was pretty fine first month.
OT: Why does warmode have to have bonus reward? PvP is a reward by itself.
I thought the 10% was bad enough they made it 30%? thats beyond stupid.
Hereās my feedback Blizzard: Remove bonus rewards from both factions. War mode is a great feature, but reward bonus is stupid. Let people that want to pvp do it for the sake of pvping. I for one love it. Itās what seperates wow from rest of the mmorpgs around. Those that want a safe run can just turn it off.
I do agree, playing with pvp talents activated and air drops are insentive enougth I think.
FYI the buff on alliance is down to 15 again so that means people on WM are now those that enjoy WM.
P.S though the conquest reward for faction assults is a great idea since those usualy do end up in alot of pvp.
Well, Iād love to see the actual data. But we can only guess what happens when Alli reach 15% and no aoo.
Bonus went from 30%, to 20%, to 15% for a few weeks, back to 20% for one week, then back to 15%. This is a faction balance improvement, since we are not always at 30%.
Iām interested in that 15% several week time period, because what happens there will determine if we ever get to 10% bonus and faction balance.
My guessā¦
Apart from normal wm on/off fluctuation, some of the faction balance improvement is from:
- Alliance turning on for aoo quest that donāt normally have it on.
- Some Horde turned off wm because they donāt like being ganked.
But what happens at 15%? This is important because we want to reach 10%, but currently it looks like it will swing between 15% and 20%. Early days tho.
At 15%, Alliance that had wm on for aoo, prob just donāt turn it on at 15%. That contributes to a swing back towards 20%ā¦ but, because itās not an instant swing, makes me think more is happening.
Guessā¦ some of the Horde that turned wm off, are turning it back on over time when Alliance is at 15% and no aoo quest, because ganking levels have returned to normal expected levels. Makes sense?
The above is just my guess, based on the timing of the bonus percentage changes. We have only had one full pass at 15%, not enough data. It will be interesting to see how long we are at 15% this time. Will it be a longer or shorter period at 15%. I am guessing it will be about the same or slightly longer. If itās longer, that could indicate more Horde are perma wm offā¦ if longer at 15%, more likely to reach 10%. If itās about the same time at 15%, we are in a predictable loop. If shorter at 15%, a chaotic loop.
Why does it matter? Achieving region faction balance under the current system, depends on a % of Horde that turn off wm at 20%, keeping it off at each pass. Some Horde will turn back on, some will just never turn it on again. The Alliance that are gonna have it on at 15% are already wm on, itās lowering the Horde wm pop that will cause 10%.
Itās good if we can reach faction balance eu. We can assume those most interested in wpvping will remain wm on at 10%, and those less interested in wpvping will wm off at 10%. Better wm and wpvp.
If thereās another explanation for the several weeks at 15%, good to discuss. But it needs to explain that time period. Wish we had the dataā¦ I really wanna know in case you couldnāt tell.
Alliance can help this process along by targeting those that look like they are in wm not for wpvp. Resource gatherers, world questers, afkers, etc. Youāll recognize them by their jumping and emote strategy when you attack em. They need to make the decision to wm off, but you can help them make that decision. They are not in wm to wpvp, and if they are on your shard, a wpvper is not. Get rid of em! 
3 Likes
I honestly think its only a very very small % of horde who have even contemplated turning WM off. Iāve been raid-ganked plenty of times on Kul Tiras and not once thought of turning WM off.
My guess is that its going to cycle between 15%-no quest (alliance abandons WM) and 20%+quest (alliance toggles WM for loots). Weāre already seeing this pattern developing. But, see what its like now its dropped to 15% again. See how many alliance I see in this weeks invasionsā¦
You make it sound like horde with WM enabled (who have likely had it on for the whole expansion) but do other activities aside from invasions are the villain in this?
What about Alliance āpure pveāersā as you would call them? There are plenty of alliance in WM (when they choose to toggle it on) who are not in WM to PvP. There are plenty of alliance for who enabling WM only occurs during invasions when thereās free loot on offer. Its those players who need to be encouraged to change their behaviour if anything.
Villainsā¦ no, nah, not villains. Everyone has the right to do what they want, no problemo. But, for the hp of wm, encouraging Horde non wpvpers to perma turn off wm is a good thing.
My theory - both sides have their ānormalā pveāers, and their excess ones.
- The normal pveāers of both factions turn on wm for cta, assault, etc. The things that both sides do.
- The excess on both factions turn on for reasons that are different per side. Horde free 10% when Alli donāt have aoo. Alliance when they have aoo. The excess of both factions affect faction balance in a significant way. Problem is, there are more excess Horde than excess Alliance, and this affects the reachabilty of 10% and faction balance.
The excess Horde pveāers need reduced. Itās not about Horde being villains. They are just too numerous, and need to be reduced permanently. Alliance excess pveāers get reduced at 15%. But at 15%, the mechanism to reduce excess Horde pveāers is removed. The excess Horde pveāers then gradually turn back on, because they get free 10% again.
Via deliberate culling of Horde non wpvpers, helping them decide wm is bad for them, Alliance can help us get to 10%. I think this is what it will take. Those Alliance that want 10% and faction balance eu might have to get their hands filthy with dirty Horde pveāer blood, again and again and againā¦ if you see what I mean. Will it happenā¦ maybe not. I will try to do my part tho, and hope others will too.
Focus the resource gatherer bots, easy target, most are either bots or semi-auto, and will wm off if too inefficient. If that bot is on your shard, a wpvper is not.
Gonna be interesting to see what happens this 15%. I think the length of time at 15%, rather than what we see on a shard will be more important. The shard activity is just luck of the draw. The 15% time frame is an overall stat for the period, more important than shard observational data from one or two players.
1 Like
You see thereās a basic problem here. Horde non wpvpers being discouraged is a good thing apparently. Alliance non wpvpers are somehowe immuneā¦despite having no interest in WPvPā¦thatās simply double standards.
No. I dont believe horde are toggling WM to the extent that alliance are. I know people who couldnāt care less about PvP but have had Wm on for the whole of the exp so far.
You see, this āfreeā 10% you mention. this was free for both factions. Horde have only ever had 10%. Thatās it. Alliance were welcome to claim this 10% too.
Horde are not toggling Wm of/on for the sake of 10% bonus. But, alliance certainly ARE toggling WM on and off when it comes to AOO and 20-30% bonus.
The reason there are āexcessā horde is that horde simply leave WM on 24/7. Wheras alliance seemt to toggle more.
If im questing in Nazmir (as happend to me today) and i get ganked by a roaming group of Alliance, well, my reaction is not to thow a fit and go turn WM off, my reactionis to try hunt them down and get them 1v1ā¦
Again. I think you are mistaken in assuming how many horde players are toggling WM. The mechanism to reduce āexcessā horde players as you see it, i donāt think it exists. I honestly donāt think horde are being discouraged from WM purely because the have to have a WPvP fight in Drustvar.
The fact that there are more Horde than Alliance rests purely with the Alliance. Turn WM on and leave it on. Its as simple as that. Instead of encouraging allaince who already do WM to gank lone horde players you should be encouraging more Alliance to KEEP WM on.
What it will also take is the persuasion of Alliance non wpvpers, whoās only interaction with Wpvp is to turn up and claim their free loot, that its worthwhile to keep WM on.
The problem here is not with Horde WPvP population, but the massively fluctuating Alliance population which changes from week to week depending on the free loot offered.
I think your time would be best used trying to convince Alliance to keep Wm enabled. This though will obviously be difficult when Alliance are turning off WM even when they STILL have better rewards than horde.
Itāll be interesting sure but, my prediction. Alliance will be scarce at Invasions and Iām certain I will be able at least one invasion this week without seeing a single alliance player. Only when the % reward is good enough and thereās free loot on offer will alliance turn WM on.
As Iām typing this, I just did an invasion in Nazmir. I saw 5 alliance total.
The last invasions i did on Kul Tiras, there were plenty of horde going toe to toe with alliance in Drustvar and Tiragarde. Horde were even pushing the alliance back at quest choke points.
This was when alliance had 20% and free loot. Despite the fact that horde were on the wrong side of the bonus/loot giveaway they turn up in numbers, time after time.
I think the problem is not with horde non wpvpers or āpure pveāersā as you call them, but with Alliance players of all kinds who have been shown that they can compete with horde and even crush horde raids in WPvP, but for some reason decide to turn off WM once the rewards are not great enough (even though they far exceed any Wm rewards horde have received).
1 Like
I am seeing less horde and alli at inv, weird. Well, good to see what happens with 15%.
Iāve just done my first Invasion in Alliance lands since the bonus was lowered.
Iām sure you know the road to the East of Fort Daelin where most of the quests are. Its also the road where alliance groups and raids congregate to kill horde.
Iāve just done the invasion on 3 toons, one after the other. Iāve not seen a single Alliance player 
The last 4-5 times Iāve done this particular invasion, there were hundreds of Alliance camping the horde quest points, what seemed like a raid group protecting the bonus chest in a cave, groups of alliance pushing horde back up the road towards Warfang Hold, in fact killing hordes who were just riding out of the horde baseā¦
This week? Nadaā¦nothingā¦
Now, the only thing that has changed form this week to the last time I did this invasion is that Alliance rewards were lowered. I know this is only a sample of 1 and anecdotal evidence is weak at best BUT I predicted this would happen, in fact was very confident this would happenā¦
This should be pretty concerning for Alliance players AND Blizzard. There genuinely seems to be a difference in behaviour as regards WM between Alliance and Horde.
Previous Stormsong Valley invasions, alliance have been there in huge numbers. Iāve had to shard into other groups just to be able to rez on occasions and its been a real battle to get all the quests completed in fact sometimes leaving one quest out so as to avoid being spam killed.
The crucial thing here though is that despite the strength of the Alliance at those invasions, Horde still keep WM on and still keep turning up in numbers. Horde simply donāt seem to be deterred by the fact they might get killed multiple times or shock horror have to participate in WPvP in a meaningful way.
The flip side to this is that Alliance are continuing to toggle WM and simply not bother turning up to Invasions when the rewards are lowered.
Honestly I think Blizzards experiment has failed. It might have seemed good at the time to offer greater rewards to tempt alliance to turn on WM but it seems to me that this very same incentive is also an incentive to turn WM off again.
Blizzard needs to come up with something else imho.
EDIT: Did the invasion on my priest. I traditionally get heavily ganked on the priest at invasions. I saw some small groups of alliance and thought āoooh here we goā¦some pvpā but no. I saw a maximum of about 12 Alliance whilst there were so many horde I couldnāt count them.
This is horde who are still turning up to invasions for lower rewards than alliance are still receiving. Honestly I think its a failed experimentā¦
2 Likes
At 15%, wpvp in wm is better, more ānormalā. 20% is fun too, I like chaos, but 15% is good. For assaults, yes, some Alliance wm off without aoo. But, at recent assaults, Iāve seen zero or few Horde. Most recent I did was after 15%, zero Horde, had to leave zone 
We have to be careful of observational data. Thereās gonna be a combo of factors for whoās at assault. Luck of the draw, one or more crz groups listed in lfg, time of day, aoo quest up or not, the assault just started, in progress, nearly over, motivations of individuals and groups, overflow shards, etc.
But, interesting to keep an eye on this, and see what happens. WM is good right now!
The fact that horde wm buff was and still 10% since the launch of BFA, says alot actully. Horde does wm for pvp in general and the reward is a bonus, while alliance will have their wm on depending on what blizzard bribe them for and not the actual pvp.
1 Like
the reason we can compete is that horde turns of hordemode at any sign of acctual resistance.
1 Like