This isnt the sort of world building the devs are interested in though. Ive made a point that they could alleviate the poverty angle by using the settling of the Cataclysm - since late MoP the Southfury has seasonal floods and turns parts of Durotar and the barrens into a highly seasonal pseudo-Nile.
But yeah, Shogg hit the nail on the head real well.
In-universe, it could be explained by Alliance mostly living in old lands while Horde living in new ones. You´re going to need much more lumber building up your country than maintaining it (although you make a good point with Stormwind being rebuilt only like 15 years ago when Vanilla starts).
The actual reason might be that it´s just a result of Blizzard going with the âmedieval village in the woodsâ trope for humans, even though in reality, Europe might be more forested now than it was in medieval era precisely because the need for lumber was absolutely massive.
It´s not like they used logic when making the human zones, somehow Stormwind lost half of its provinces (including the breadbasket) and only had firm grip on one of the remaining two, yet its huge capital city didn´t experience famine or shortage of goods.
Headcanon: Stormwind uses essentially Astroturf(fake grass) but for trees.
âI canât believe its not real trees!â˘â
Thatâs why it comes across as a case of consequences for thee, not for me when it comes to the Horde and the Alliance. The Hordeâs got to deal with the consequences and logistics of a lumber shortage in their territory and the acquisition of lumber, while the Kingdom of Stormwind continues to operate like a well-oiled machine even when itâs supposed to be crippled by the Defias insurgency.
I guess the hand-wavey âsolutionâ would be that the Allianceâs cut down lumber areas and quarries are all of-screen since Azeroth is meant to be bigger than shown. But that is also rather lazy.
And does again play into what you say, as why make it off-screen for one faction, but not for the other.
Likewise thereâs the bristle between the industrious goblins and the nature-loving tauren, but nothing between the industrious gnomes/dwarves and nature-loving nelves.
So the same way the Horde uses Taurajo (who?), lol
Zoramâgar âoutpostâ and Splintertree Post are resource gathering operations and not outright fortresses?
Why do both have a heavy military presence then?
Doubt Northwatch is a problem because it was build in an area the Horde hadnât claimed yet back then.
Tiragarde Keep however is build right in Durotar!
Well, until Naralax and his gang are able to finally return the Barrens to lush forests! Maybe the Botani can help with that (they wouldnât do it for the Horde or anything tho!)
I think Stormwind got alot of resources from other Alliance nations to rebuild and didnât really tap into the surrounding areas because alot of their pop died in the First and Second War.
Now that you mention that, gnomes/dwarves and nelves are waay to friendly!
But maybe thats because they live on seperate continents? Unlike the Bilgewater, Steamwheedle and Venture Company goblins?
Which frankly is much more harmful to the Alliance storytelling in the end. I don´t think what is being described here is Alliance somehow getting away without consequences, but rather worldbuilding being lacking in Alliance zones because it just gets the default fantasy races treatment.
It´s like how Dark Horde somehow survives in Plains of Gorgoroth Burning Steppes despite having no sources of food or lumber (although I guess they did capture that one lumber mill in Redridge) because orcs/trolls/ogres/goblins in burning desolate land is a fantasy trope.
Meanwhile, Horde gets to actually interact with its environment because at most they´re doing indirect tropes (tauren being stand-in for native Americans living in big plains) so they don´t get placed in stupid enviroments where they get to thrive because the tropes demand they thrive.
To be fair, the Hordeâs âconsequencesâ of being crippled with lumber is having new outposts and quests in Ashenvale: more quests, thatâs it.
Personally, it is also a part of the plot I liked. It connects back to Warcraft III, where Grommash was sent to take lumber from Ashenvale, and to flaws in Thrallâs philosophy of having his people struggle to atone for their past sins (something which, in turn, the younger orcs did not like because they had no fault in their fathersâs crimes - again, I found all of this good story-telling).
I also think this isnât as true as you make it to be. Westfall has been dried with resources, to the point that we see a giant mine, so large that it could host an entire ship. Their rebuilding also caused economical crises and bandits to run around the kingdom. These are consequences, in the end. Westfall is equally devoid of any woodlands, with logging operations here and there.
It is also noteworthy that rebuilding a city isnât the same thing as building from scratch an entire kingdom, and Thrall has to consistently deal with interferences from all kinds of enemies - Kul Tirans, centaurs, quiliboars.
Besides, whoever made the game was inspired by the previous games, and they most likely did not want to turn something as iconic as Elwynn Forest in Elwynn Deforested, which really wouldnât capture the magic of a human walking in the woods and exploring stuff.
False. The Sylvanas novel shows the timeline of events and she actively rejected the Jailer up until she saw Azerite at which point she affirmed her loyalty to him, which happened well after the assassination attempt in Stormheim. Before the Storm has the Alliance admit that Genn and Rogers started the conflict.
Thank you for clarifying that, I was not aware of this.
However, does this also not contradict the whole point with Helya, as Shadowlands makes it seem like the deal Sylvanas struck with Helya in Stormheim was directly related to Helya allying the Mawsworn in Shadowlands?
Even so, that can still be chalked up to Blizzard again not keeping track of their own stuff.
I still hold that Camp Taurajo was quintessentially a war crime which mass murdered a ton (read: small group?) of civillains and a few guards, but became a forgotten plot point because it inspired zero interest from any side.
You donât bomb cities (camps) and then pretend itâs not a bad thing.
Do you refer to the war, or the conflict in Stormheim?
It was, but at the point in time Sylvanas wasnât still fully on board with the Jailerâs grand design. When Volâjin died and she became the Warchief, it fulfilled the second to last âprophecyâ of the Jailer (though unbeknownst to her, Jailer and Muehâzala had arranged this to happen because Sylvanas kept rejecting him), at which point she made contact with him to figure out whatâs what. She wasnât still on board with the grand design, just using him (and Helya) as an opportunity to gain more Valâkyr.
Holding Azerite in her hand fulfilled the final prophecy at which point she was convinced and joined him officially and began to work towards fulfilling his grand design, but at that point they were already at war with the Alliance due to Genn and Rogers.
Itâs recognised as the conflict that started the war.
In that case, since it was a topic of contention, Iâd wish for a quote, because even Warcraft Wiki did not say anything about this
edit.
Rather it says this:
The Gathering, however, ended in disaster. Upon seeing the Forsaken trying to defect to the Alliance and being informed of Calia Menethilâs presence, Sylvanas ordered her dark rangersto kill her people but spare the humans as to not start a war.
Which in itself is post Genn and Rogers.
Once more, this is stuff that would be great if they explored and showcased properly in-game rather than in books and materials outside of WoW.
To be fair, that book came at the end of the Shadowlands, and it once again shows how bad the writing was for that expansion, let alone the planning.
It was them trying to make sense of something that just does not make a lot of sense.
Anduin rebuked Genn and Rogers for going too far in Stormheim against his orders, and the fallout of their assassination attempt on Sylvanas sparked the conflict that becomes the Fourth War. Sylvanas cites as much in A Good War when trying to gain Saurfangâs support, claiming the Alliance already tried to assassinate her once â they were already at war, itâs only a matter of when the Alliance deals a second strike (which per Before the Storm, the dwarves were planning on manufacturing Azerite nukes to wipe out the Horde with â the Alliance council is actively pursuing war in the novel) and they need to retaliate.
Moreover, in his letter to Sylvanas, Anduin calls for a cease-fire for the duration of The Gathering, recognising that the conflict had already started. They may not use the word âwarâ then, but the Fourth War is a direct consequence of the actions taken in Stormheim ââ i.e. Stormheim was the first shot that sparked the conflict that would be recognised later as the Fourth War. Just like the people at the time didnât know that the assassination of the Archduke was the beginning of the First World War.
But this is all your interpretation. Reasonable or not, itâs not what I asked for.
You stated the book confirms that Gennâs assault in Stormheim is the beginning of the war.
Yet you yourself tell me that:
which basically means that no, the book did not say Genn started the war.
Which is reinforced by the fact that, as of the moment of the Gathering, the very same book states the two groups are not at war yet.
Which is reinforced by the first page of A Good War, that you also brought up as a source. Here, in the first page, it says that the two factions are not yet considered at war:
The warchief had recently humbled Stormwindâs king, Anduin Wrynn, so the boy had unleashed an infestation of spies across the cityâso many that it forced the guards into paranoia.
It was a clever tactic, especially since the spies kept their daggers sheathed. Killing Horde would have sparked anger and brought the two factions closer to war, but just watching the Horde, evading capture, and successfully doing so for weeks on end . . . The season of war would come again eventually, as it always did. No reason to rush.
Both factions suck massively at this point because theyâve both been bastardized to the point that all that remains are caricatures. Blizzard slowly moves away from the concept of factions until weâre playing in World of Peacecraft.
Writing-wise I canât say much about horde as I checked out from that entire freakshow the moment we wasted Volâjin on a random mob whilst Varian got a peak moment cinematic-wise.
Objectively speaking, the âless badâ faction here is the Alliance. Itâs a consequence of shifting how we percieve the horde because alliance-coded races are better for marketing. Post-fourth war thereâs no reason to root for the horde - thereâs no longer the feeling of an underdog fighting impossible odds and thereâs no feeling of unity of misfits to secure a place in Azeroth at any cost.
Though, well, maybe we shouldnât consider the writing of people who thought âlight-infused bonesâ and âdiscount sargerasâ were cool plot points to add to a story.
My post isnât anti-faction propaganda, btw. I consider faction war to be necessary for the story and the fact that weâve sidelined it for so long until everything becomes a massive nothing-burger where century-old elves âforgive and forgetâ transgressions against them after a couple years to be awful. Youâre telling me the Sunreavers are buddy-buddy with the Kirin Tor after getting genocided? Having Aethas apologize after having his people hunted down? We just forget Taurajo 'cause garrosh threw a hissy fit and now we work together with the Alliance? Kaldorei just moving on from Teldrassil with Sylvanas getting a cosmic slap on the wrist and a redemption arc after it all?
Itâs insane to me how the whole âTuralyon and Alleria just hang out in Silvermoonâ wasnât that big a deal in the end. Why were there Forsaken in Belâameth and Gilneas? Am I going crazy? Is this all a prank?
Anyway, I didnât read the thread lol.
TLDR: Horde Bad, Alliance Good as of right now because blizzard has forgotten how to write an entire faction and just puppets Thrallâs âI need to Relearn Shamanismâ corpse everytime they feel theyâve sidelined the good olâ boys in red. Making most non-âneutralâ villains Horde-adjacent hasnât helped much either.
Anyway you wonât have to worry about factions much longer, so donât think about it too much lol
Blizzard slowly moves away from the concept of factions until weâre playing in World of Peacecraft.
If I never have to read this accursed phrase ever again, it will be too soon.