Alliance vs Horde: Which one is the worst according to you?

They didn’t bomb Taurajo, and they left a gap in the lines for civilians to flee.

We can debate wether that gap (accidently?) leading to Quillboar land might be a warcrime, but Taurajo itself was a valid target.

Because even if the tauren (hunters) there weren’t used by the Horde warmachine for military matters they would still supply the Horde with food and other resources.

100% Orcs, with their roots in Shamanism should be more then capable of keeping Ashenvale almost undented with their Lumber Camps! If anything you’d expect them to learn from the Night Elves and learn how to grow living wood akin to how Night Elves do, as to not upset the balance of nature and elements!

As much as I like to bash the Horde-side story because of this… I do think its more interesting from the Horde angle, storywise.

Stormwind and the Human Kingdoms who can do no wrong and have everything perfectly in order is just boring as and thats why nobody discusses it. Even their corrupt House of Nobles has somehow been resolved offscreen because of reasons.

I would love some tensions between the Dwarves/Gnomes and the Night Elves. But the most we got was that one Night Elf Grove Keeper in Outlands that send the Gnomes away because he found them anoyying and then he felt sad about sending them away lmao.

Same lol.

But yea, We’re moving away from the Faction’s being at war, which might be a good thing! BUT! only if they decide to replace it with shorter stories about races being at odds.

I can see NElves and Orcs being at odds over eastern Ashenvale and the remaining Horde outposts in Ashenvale.

I can see Worgen and Forsaken being at odds due to their borders and Blood Elves with Void Elves with High Elves because a myriads of reasons. I can even see NElves and Humans being heavily at odds after the War of Thorns.

I don’t see Blizzard ever doing any interesting with these interraces grudges and odds, because everybody and their grandmothers have to be friends now (Lillian Voss and Shandris are besties, and Lillian is also besties with Tess Greymane)

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Taurajo’s location by itself makes it a valid target because it controls the road leading into Mulgore.

easy fix

Send the Wildhammers.

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Why do people still think that Sylvanas being sentenced to free every soul from Super Hell on her own (if we exclude an owl hooting angrily at her every so often) is a slap on the wrist?

It’s a pretty (read: extremely) unpleasant job that involves making tangible reparations for her crimes.

Blizzard will probably make pee-pee on it eventually by having her come back much sooner than she ought to, but for the moment I’d describe it as an adequate conclusion to her arc.

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I think its a mixture of both being very cautiously aware that Blizzard will likely bring her back alot earlier, but also how she was treated compared to others in the setting.

Alot of bad guys and villains who arguably did less than she did directly was dealt with directly and often ended up dying(Including many who probably should have had a trial instead or other form of punishment), but with Sylvanas, there has been a very strong and growing resentment from many players that not only was she exempted from this, but also was very rarely given a moment of actual danger or even losing. Blizzard has always had plot armor for many characters, but few has been so brazen about it as Sylvanas.

There was(at least from me) some disgruntled feelings over that so many characters seemed to more or less forgive her for her crimes(not the same as not getting a sentence) because they pulled a “It was actually just the evil side of her. She is still good!” which felt like a cheap way to try and give her sympathy.

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Does anyone forgive her, besides possibly Anduin and Uther? Anduin was given time to empathise with her and is generally a soft boy who would forgive Sargeras if he asked for it, and Uther didn’t feel like he was in a place to judge since he aided and abetted the same cause for a while (and they suffered the same fate at the hands of the same man).

While not to the full extent as those two, Tyrande even as she gave Sylvanas the sentence displayed compassion for her beyond what I thought was reasonable and thanked her for assisting in the Jailer’s downfall. Sending her owl with her also felt more like a olive branch than anything else.

Alleria, Veeresa and Baine ultimately also essentially forgives her. Shandris is in a similar spot as Tyrande in a “We’ll see what happens” kind of mentality.

The only one who flat out does not think she deserves any mercy or even consideration for empathy is Genn, and while I think he is otherwise extremely brash as a character, I do think he is right here. I think it is absolutely the wrong move to give sympathy for any of her actions. You can understand the road that got her there without also thinking she deserves any kindness at this point.

Ultimately I just really dislike her as a character and her writing though.

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You know what, I am just going to say it; even now Sylvanas is only in anything for herself. She has alot of Dark Rangers under her command, she forced that faith upon others and raised Night Elves as Dark Rangers aswell…

Yet she only fought to have her own soul restored. What about the people she forced undeath upon? She never thought about them! And now they’ll be forever stuck with only half a soul!

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Is it confirmed that this is a consequence of generic undeath? I thought that was due to the particular nature of Frostmourne as a soul-siphoning sword (albeit a faulty one according to Shadowlands, with the contrived gimmick of only storing half of the soul while the other half is sent to the Shadowlands as per normal).

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That’s more of a Frostmourne thing rather than a general undead thing. Undead in general merely have their soul partly shackled to their bodies.

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Oh, I just assumed that with Sylvanas red eyes becoming blue again after her soul was restored, and -all- Darkfallen having red eyes, it was just something Darkfallen got!

Especially since, back then, Dark Rangers were actually Banshee’s repossessing their bodies!

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Gotta say it’s kinda funny that only Alliance posters are bringing up Taurajo. Otherwise not been mentioned at all by anyone talking Horde-side stuff.

Clearly the only solution is to kill her.

Keeping Sylvanas alive so Tyrande could judge here and make her toil in reparations to start ‘fixing’ what she did :-1:

Killing Sylvanas so the Arbiter could judge her and go “actually her soul is remorseful so we’re sending her to a paradise afterlife” :+1:

Shadowlands justice.

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There is no fixing what she did!

Thats the whole darn problem. The things she did are not fixable. Families torn apart, people who have to miss their loved ones eternally, because she decided to break the wheel and rebuild the multiverse or whatever.

There is no going back from that. You can be remorseful, you can be send into turbohell to save the souls you send there in the first place, but that will never heal the wounds left on those who now have to miss their loved ones.

And thats aside from the cursed existence, she hated so much, that she forced upon others to endure for eternity.

Even if she returns in two expansions, saved every soul which still was savable from the Maw, there are still those souls who endured hell because of her, whose very essence were destroyed because of her and then there are their living kin who have seen nothing, perhaps even know nothing, of how she tried to absolve herself from her guilt(which she could never do if she was genuine).

Tyrande is right, saving those souls who are savable is only the beginning for her repentence if she ever should get any.

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The one thing that does give me a little hope with how they’re treating Sylvanas is how they’re writing (and having other characters react to) the Penitent. Personally I do think Sylvanas should have died - end her story, give her no chance to come back, not for the crimes against fictional characters but for the crime of being absolutely insufferable every single time she was on screen from BFA through Shadowlands, but if we’re not going to see her killed off in Shadowlands then at the very least I hope that she’s a character that literally zero people ever trust again, largely outcast by the Horde, despised by the Alliance and maybe even forced to be distant from her own people, with only a select few welcoming her back.

Given how they’ve written the Penitent - yeah I could see that happening and see it not being totally awful.

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We don’t know why her eyes became blue again, but not all Darkfallen have red eyes. All dark rangers having red eyes is a leftover from their skins being hardcoded to have red eyes where they would probably be like your average human undead with many different eye colours.

Because she’s not evil now.

…She also wasn’t evil in the first place, according to Blizzard.

mOrAlLy GrEy

Which should be impossible; since the afterlives were broken for every world in every reality (I think)?

That’s a quintillion-trillion-bajillion lost souls in the time between Legion and Shadowlands. All because she was mad about her lot in life.

Even if it was only worlds from our reality that were affected, it’s still a lot…

There’s no going back from a lot of stuff people have done - that’s kinda how time works! Especially since the Bronzes are such babies about changing stuff. The only unique aspect of Sylvanas really is that she actually got punished for it.

“Time flows differently in the Maw” so they can just dump her in there for what she feels is a few millenia and was five years for us.

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A single day of Maw dailies then tbqh

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Whenever Blizzard says “every timeline” or “every reality,” just shut off your brain and move on.

There’s no use wasting your time trying to make sense of it when it’s just a handwave excuse that they use to try and eliminate a few plotholes, only to create a genuinely infinite amount of plotholes instead.

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