An Unbiased Question (sarcasm) 🙃

[Alewín-argent-dawn]

@Magiola-darksorrow

Having a very easy time and still getting the best gear…it’s not going to be a very satisfactory experience either.

To be fair, I didn’t suggest a ‘very easy time’. There is a range between simplicity and excessively punishing. I don’t want to be unable to fail; I want to have more margin for error especially when high geared.

Right now, gearing up doesn’t really change the chance of dying to a momentary error, it just reduces the overall time spent in the dungeon - if nobody makes a momentary error. If all doesn’t go well, you still spend a long time because you’re not really less likely to wipe.

@Magiola-darksorrow

The player knows a lot, but they do not know what the optimal design is, nor reward structure for content.

I don’t think Blizzard do either, given the general dissatisfaction with TWW.

@Magiola-darksorrow

So the solution isn’t to nerf M+, but to improve the gearing structure for the general social “scratching their nose for three seconds”-group.

Depends. I like the social structure of M+ and enjoy doing multiplayer content with my guild. What I don’t like is the amount of spankings the game has been dishing out this season. People can manage to have fun even if we spend 2 hours depleting 2 keys - but I think we’d have more fun if we spent those 2 hours pushing 4 keys.

We wouldn’t run out of stuff to do and play less, we’d have more active characters and more time in-game.

[Alewín-argent-dawn]

@Sylvare-argent-dawn

I think they should nerf content before buffing players.
If its just buffing players ok nice and all but I still feel no warmth towards m+ so long as there’s trash packs that are more dangerous then bosses

Indeed this.

I think raids are in a pretty decent spot, but M+ is noticeably harder for equivalent levels of reward.

Despite several seasons of saying “we want to reduce healer and tank power and reduce incoming damage”, Blizzard keep forgetting to do the last part.

[Magiola-darksorrow]

@Alewín-argent-dawn

Right now, gearing up doesn’t really change the chance of dying to a momentary error, it just reduces the overall time spent in the dungeon - if nobody makes a momentary error. If all doesn’t go well, you still spend a long time because you’re not really less likely to wipe.

It may not mitigate much if you make an error like standing in avoidable stuff, no. But it does to a great degree decrease the reaction time needed to handle unavoidable damage. The health pool gain alone from gear is absolutely absurd, that gives a lot of extra room to figure stuff out.

@Alewín-argent-dawn

I don’t think Blizzard do either, given the general dissatisfaction with TWW.

Yeah, well, the season-progression numbers weren’t very out-of-line compared to other seasons. Easy shot to fire, I’m not sure you hit something with it.

Otherwise, I’m not sure the satisfaction-level of the general player can easily be measured.

@Alewín-argent-dawn

We wouldn’t run out of stuff to do and play less, we’d have more active characters and more time in-game.

Yeah…for your social group(s) it surely does not matter too much and you may even play more. And to be fair, in a social group (either friends or guild), M+ is simply more enjoyable…averagely speaking.

But anyone who does M+ to fill the vault? Either they go for an alt or just log off earlier. I honestly doubt that making it all easier leads to much more time spent in M+.

We see the same in raids, don’t we? At some point people just raid-log. This has been a thing since…forever. Doesn’t really matter how easy the content is. When the only goal is gear, people will do the bare minimum to gear up. And that’s why I think they should re-think the gearing-system and let M+ be for whoever wants to battle the M+challenge. If it’s just for gear, you’re gonna be miserable regardless.

[Gorrak-ragnaros]

Give shamans tank role, and i will tank.

[Isthisabard-quelthalas]

They need to buff the weaker tanks and heal specs too. I’m fine with tanks needing to rely a bit more on healers in actual difficult content, but spells dubbed “strong healing spell” barely healing for 6-700k when folks run around with ~6+ mill. hp (tanks ~10) are kinda “not strong”…especially when bosses have unavoidable AoE damage skills that kills most players with 4-5 ticks, a bit less if they have def cds. (and enough braincells to actually use them).

[Furyeclipser-stormscale]

@Tsjoh-argent-dawn

For example i play prot pala on an alt. We were in dawnbreaker and went to the garden-miniboss. You need to fly there. I landed basically next to the miniboss and was instant dead from full health, in a +6. Like wtf? It is probably a learn to play thing, but this isn’t really motivating to play the tankrole.

Look from brighter side. You are not druid who need to shapeshift after flying, and shapeshifting triggers GCD

[Exiasee-eonar (Exiasee)]

@Jito-turalyon

This old MMORPG design where players sit stone-faced in front of their PCs and concentrate hard to press 40 different buttons in the correct order whilst coordinating with 4 other players to execute cooldowns and crowd-control at precisely the right moment in order to defeat a trash pack consisting of 5 kobolds, is just not the future of gaming.

I need to correct this; What you described is the new MMORPG design. The old MMORPG is the one where you have fewer abilities, lower apm and interact with other players both during and out of combat.

@Magiola-darksorrow

The whole point of dying to mechanics is most likely to actually relief some pressure from the healers. Can’t heal a dead player…so it’s no longer a healer mechanic:)

There are better ways to “punish” a player for not achieving specific performance than simply tell them “Go sit afk in the corner while the rest of the group rightfully berates you”.

• They can nerf player’s output (not necessarily just damage) without 100% removing control (ie. death)
• They can make it a gold loss (for example increased repair costs)
• They can reduce rewards based on amount of “fails”
• They can lose reputation/renown with some faction so that it takes longer to get the next satchel
• They can add an undispellable and persisting-through-death debuff on the character that reduces flight speed for some minutes after exiting the instance
• They can “force” a rerunning of Proving Grounds or Awakening the Machine before entering another instance
• etc.

Instakills are the giveaway that the developers aren’t creative. It’s like those cheap Death spells in JRPGs.