M+ doesn’t give CE, though. Like yes I get it, we’re good in M+ but it’s not -the- content. It’s just a side thing for people who can’t raid. For me M+ is a chore I do for my weekly chest.
My problem is that apart from ONE Havoc which is pretty much mandatory people don’t really want DHs. This makes us a buff bot. In Vanilla you had to take 1 Paladin in your raid for buffs but that was it. That’s crappy design.
the point is that in M+ Dh allows you to avoid some bosses mechanics (deadeye in TD, blade combo in KR, debilitating strike in KR, the bleed from berserkers in KR) but those are mechanics that are avoidable if the DH is skilled enough and require practice and timing. Also there are few classes that can hold a boss for 15+ secs in a 15 dung while tank dies or needs to refresh necrotic for example, rogues can’t do it since they don’t have taunt (also they don’t have an aoe stun) and if you check the top team in m+ it’s PWarrior, Rdruid, DH, Rogue and Ele, if the class is so bad don’t you think they would replace the DH?
I dont say the class is bad m8. I love it, I saw it is not that great as it was in legion. Anyway, I would like to discuss it further. You can always learn more from ppls. And you should be open to do so:) In my case from you and Kelduril.
Rogue should be #2 on aggro due to damage anyway. When the tank dies the boss goes on the Rogue. Not that I’ve had such situations anyway. And again M+ is pretty much meaningless.
The best Azerite is in BoD so Residuum is irrelevant. What’s the point of doing M+ above 10 then? Get your weekly item and pray for the best.
It’s not. It’s just bad in the raid, like most melee are.
Ranged classes shouldn’t have superior DPS when they also get to avoid most of the damage and can spread.
Nope, you are not right here. The only trait worth stacking for PvE is furious gaze, others are recommended to go with 1x revolving blades, 1x thirsting blades and 1x chaotic transformation. The dmg from the treacherous covenant is not so relevant (I have simulated it many times: my actual chest simulates more dps than 415 mekkatorke chest, which is supposed to be the raid BiS). On single target after their burst end I’m always ahead of the rogue I play with (doesn’t really matter the spec), also they have tools to avoid that aggro and they don’t have the taunt spell which makes us strong in that point. Please DH is good, it’s a caster meta and till blizzard change that casters will have advantage over melees.
We’re not in Legion either, we’re not the expansion’s new class so is normal to don’t be so top tier as we used to be in Legion. Stop so much QQ and focus on your gameplay bc im pretty sure that almost anyone agrees with you that DH is in a bad spot (specially in PvE). For example how many survival/enha/sub/warriors do you see in raid compared to DH, we are one of the most useful and versatile melee class in the game, in both raid and M+.
The BIS traits are 2 x Furious gaze and as many Revolving and TCs as you can get. Those are what sim highest for me.
I.e. none of the residuum items are any good for me. Maybe for PvP but it’s so dogcrap I can’t even bear to do my weekly chest.
Those sim far, far below Revo, FG and TC.
There’s no one piece that is BIS. BIS is the traits I listed above. Your Mekka chest would sim the highest if you had 2 x FG on Shoulder and Head.
In what? PvP or PvE?
Because in PvE ranged DPS have been meta since the dawn of time.
Again with this. Those classes have specs that are better. They can switch to that spec. I don’t have a spec I can switch to, because Veng is crap and there’s no second DPS spec.
If not for the magic damage debuff you wouldn’t see Havoc in any competitive guild’s lineup. At best they’re good as a 1 spot out of 20 for the debuff.
M+ comp doesn’t even matter. If you have 5 people with 410 ilvl you can do +15 with any comp. And I already pointed out M+ is useless because raid gear is way better.
This isn’t true. You want;
Uhm… every DH worth their salt knows CT doesn’t process properly in the sims. It’s an upgrade straight and simple, whilst TB is also extremely good.
Incorrect. There is also BiS pieces but the chances of getting them are so bad there’s not much point worrying about it.
No they haven’t. Legion and BfA have seen some heavy caster influence but before that there was a lot of melees overtaking everything.
Yes you would. Stop acting as if people are only going to take the FOTM because that isn’t going to happen outside of the very top guilds.
My damage is easily competitive enough to match everyone else in my raid team except from the few bosses which favour x spec.
M+ isn’t useless. You can get some damn good trinkets from there.
Noooo! it’s a great idea, it’s like the post after WF race in Uldir… Rogue’s needed a massive buff cause no rogues in world first G’huun
I love these posts … seeing all these people loose all forms of common sense, all in the hunt for buffs, which let’s be fair, we have very little if any influence on 
All wrong, you want
3x Furious Gaze
1x Eyes of Rage for shorter EB CD (1.4 sec per fragment)
1x Revolving Blades
1x Seething Power or Thirsting Blades
That’s what sims highest also behind the sims and all these traits are Raiddrops (conclave, rastakha, storm wall blockade) 
P.S:
Before you write things like “Yo it’s still 0.7 seconds” I should add the information that this Trait’s tooltip isn’t 100% correct. It has a zone modifier so depending on which zone you are in, this Trait has either 0.7 sec or 1.4 sec. BoD and DH class hall have 1.4 sec, open world and dungeons have 0.7 sec.
here a little “evidence” sorry for my bad english in this video. I actually take the time EB needs to come off CD and divide the difference to 30 seconds by the ammount of fragments collected.
Sims are actually taking the 0.7 sec instead of 1.4 sec, so real dps is even higher (in a non-existing patchwork fight).
i agree with you in part, but there’s a point that in some raid encounters for example (or almost every boss encounter also in m+, with some expception) it’s a full single target fight, so unless you go with demonic apetite the EoR trait is a bit useless, also chaotic transformation is good bc it gives you (at least in PvE) a higher amount of burst with the double EB+FG haste. I think CT and EoR are kinda situational but i prefer CT
AoE or ST doesn’t make much difference in this case. Either you have Blind Fury (EB itself deals more damage) or you have Demonic Appetite (EB deals more damage by making it useable more frequently).
The Problem with Blind Fury Talent is its lack of haste scaling while Demonic Appetite scales very well. Thats why Demonic Appetite = Blind Fury in ST even without Eyes of Rage Trait.
The only AoE encounter which somehow benefits Blind Fury is Opulence but even there with Appetite you are able to cast an extra EB beween the Adds and have it ready when next adds spawn which means more dps to Boss because adds are irrelevant as long your raid can deal them down fast enough.
CT doesn’t sim good with Appetite. Situational I would take CT for Rastakhan, thats it.
Then why do so many people not pick/use it and use what I mentioned instead?
As I’ve also said, CT doesn’t sim correctly even though it’s pretty much BiS, or rather very close to it.
Did you even know it’s 1.4 secs now? I think noone did because Blizzard din’t communicate this change in any way.
Why do you complain about one of the Best classes dps wise out of all dps… focus should be on vengeance mitigation
Because we’re behind every ranged class bar Mage and most guilds aren’t recruiting DHs, due to the meta only requiring one per raid.
Any proof of this or is this just Fel Hammer ‘just trust me dude’ broscience?
Because I don’t see how it would be hard to take CT into account when the program simulates. It’s just an extra Eye Beam/Blade Dance for every meta and DPS added to Bite. Assuming you sim 8 minutes that’s 2 metas with CT.
There are tons of DH players in PvE (probably the most played melee DPS by far) so it’s normal that if there are lots of DHs guilds already have theirs. BTW in my guild we are 4 DHs and we are on blockade MM and we are always on the half-top on the dps table (top of melees), if DH is so bad that it’s only useful for the raid buff idk man, we should still be in conclaive then…
The spec that needs a full rework is Veng DH, is bad af, the worst tank in all terms except kiting, crap heal, crap dmg, trash mitigation/defensives… The fracture/soulbomb change is the worst sh1t that blizzard has made to Veng DH, together with the survival tools nerf is what make Veng almost inviable
From the theorycrafters, yes. The proof is also ingame and I’ve been noticing visible improvements upon switching.
I mean for now you can just go into warcraftlogs alone and look at all the CT’s. If your self-proclaimed BiS list was actually BiS then there wouldn’t be ONE single person without CT in the front page of rankings alone, and that’s just looking like an opulence cheese strat on the adds. There are of course a few (and I mean a few) other exceptions but not picking CT is usually a case of less dps.
Nothing’s ever that easy. I’m not a programmer so I can’t go into it but if it was that easy it would’ve been implemented ages ago.
Pulling way more dps on my dh alt, being 10ilvl lower. Both st and aoe, except those times when I get 5 procs of divine storm in a row. I don’t know how this works.
Dh isn’t bad in PvP, lower represemtation is just reffering to less comps that can be played at high lvl.
Dh Dk is easily a top tier comb, and with dh ww you can also get Rating without any big problems.
Same goes with Dh Warr, the state of Dh atm isnt the reason you don’t get Gladiator.
The lack of comps is a symptom of the problem.