You play with “unknown to you ppl” so that you can play in team?
So what about having a ranking algorithm like in MOBAS so that you can skip the time consuming “searching ppl, scheduling a time to play” thing by just pressing a “quick match” button and play in a BG “full of unknown to you people” anyway?
i dont remember the original vanilla being this bad for pre mades?
That way I can’t weed off boosted people, ragers, afkers, drunk people. “Unknown people” are people who I choose to play with, that’s the main difference 
But doesn’t this butthurt come from the fact that they got people to play with to form a premade and you don’t?
Dude is boring either side you choose.
Now you’re confusing the nature of it. It’s like comparing LFR in retail to the many PUG raids in Classic.
In the PUG raids, many people talk. In LFR, many people don’t. You know why?
It’s partly because of the difficulty of the content in LFR being easy to the point of afking, but it’s also because of social mechanisms like the act of reciprocation and internally accepting each other.
^ This is an example of what the act of acceptance can do. It leads to more implicit trust just from the act of grouping up together, while if the part of grouping up would be automatic then there wouldn’t be any of that implicit trust forming because you’ve yet to accept each other then.
The fact that you’re also on the same server, even in those PUG raids, means people are more aware of the social aspect than they are in LFR. Because in retail and LFR, you can act as bad as you want and it still wouldn’t really impede your ability to do stuff in the game.
But when you behave that bad in Classic with everyone from the same realm, there are actual consequences to it. It will impede your ability to do stuff in the game like that.
So this, and also other things, serves to motivate people on a fundamental level, to work together and be generally constructive. Instead of not caring about anything and being apathetic about it, which dulls the immersion in the content itself.
Doing this repeatedly, seeing the same people over and over again which you can easily remember, leads to effects like these happening naturally:
Compared to the many names you’ve already forgotten from the xrealm matchmaking, and never bothered communicating with for the sake of better teamwork.
(It’s not like I’m saying you’ve never communicated like that in the xrealm matchmaking, but when it occurs it tends to be with only a select few from an entire team of players you’re also playing with, and you’re highly unlikely to have bothered remembering anyone of them if you’ve done a lot of BGs anyway.
Not to mention the ones that never reciprocated, or in other words they never said a thing back to you, those you’re even more unlikely to have bothered remembering the names of.)
You can just tell many people have not even tried making or joining a premade.
Majority of games are against other premades. Sometimes you get stomped by hardcore warlord premades, most of the time it’s a good fight against people who want to play.
All of the excuses of “they just /afk, they use scouts, they only let certain ranks in” are just hollow. Just try yourself, see how different reality is from fantasy.
Even those get stomped by lower rank premades, High rankers from PvE or RP realms are not as good as PvP realm premades.
No offence guys.
Exactly this… “Why 90% of opponent teams are premades?! I won’t look for premades because I won’t support unfair fight!!! REEEEE!!! Pssst… I’m the minority who supports unfair change… but don’t tell anyone… Ok?? Lets REEEE together…” :DD
This is the core problem. No side is winning actually. Premades that aim for high ranks have no life and ofc have no fun playing this game. It is like work to them. And rank 13-14 is their pension. But then you are too old and tired to enjoy anything.
I have to agree though, that some of us (me included) are just lazy and unwilling to join a discord channel (I did not know that there were realm channels) or forming out own premade.
But if the reality is like that, what matters is, how many are on “solo side” amd what can be done to change their (our) minds. I proposed removing solo queue and only join as group (5 man) or join as raid options. To force people to be organized.
Hard core premade players, that advise solo players to stop whining because they deserve nothing, and form their own premade, are hypocrites. Because it is not what they want.
Except for the people saying they want it like that, you instead presume them all to be lying.
Yep, that sounds like what a sane person would do.
I gonna like your post, because its the shortest you ever made. Well done mate. It doesn’t even matter that I disagree with you.
PS: of the 4 premades we met (I played in one last night), one was much better than us and they won easily, the other three AFKed as soon as they realized that they either gonna lose or it will be a long game. For many of them it is pure numbers. Honor per hour and nothing else.
Its a small sample and I will gather more data if I play again.
Even worse, so you’re extrapolating that small sample size by your own admission, to mean the collective will of everyone who tells you to group up yourself.
Also, those premades were really bad if they just “AFKed”. They’re supposed to try to get as many HKs as possible, or else they lose a hell of a lot of honor per hour if that is their regular habit.
This has, in some weird way, turned into identity politics. You identify as part of one group, while the ones arguing against you are people you identify as another group, so therefore you think of what any of those you identify as part of that same opposite group does or says, to be representative of the group as a whole.
It’s really messed up if you think about it.
I identified (and to you personally) as someone who loves PvP (especially AB) and would love to play with people that are skilled and willing to do their best to win or even dominate. But I couldn’t do it because of the family routine. Not only of course. I do my self-criticism. It can be done, but its not easy.
There are thousands if people like me. And they didn’t and still don’t enjoy PvP. And that’s purely because of premade vs pugs games.
The other side for me, are people who doesn’t want competition (that’s what PvP is) and enjoy their unfair advantage. Not against the rules, but still unfair.
Empty conjecture, given the prevalence of premades and the large ladder sizes on servers in Classic, I’d argue there are many giving it their all to PvP regardless.
This shows player engagement. Meaning it still isn’t at a breaking point.
So, you claim that it would be better to make the game worse for the people who does play this for the social aspect, which is inherently different from retail, because you, and the people like you, doesn’t have time to play BGs as it is now as anything other than solo?
I’d argue that’s how you got retail and that’s what retail already provides as a service.
As for the difficulty of finding premades, I’ll refer you to the other thread where I addressed this specifically:
Read the posts where I brought it up. I’m not gonna make this into a twitter post for you. Go read.
No, I just want to be able to PvP against people that like me, and don’t mind (or want) to play in a pug. Will we deserve less honor points? No problem. Will we be stomped at last GY? I consider it an issue. It looks like many people think the same way.
I am not sure about the numbers (solo vs premade) but unless solo players participate much more in forums (why?), it seems that casual players are the majority.
If it is two distinguished groups, why shouldn’t they play separately? Why organized players, don’t want to fight ONLY other organized teams? I am not asking if it can be done. I ask why you are against it?
This has already been brought up maaaaaaaaany times, and I’ve gone over the overall effect this would have.
If you want a working solo queue separated from groups, with no negative impact overall on the social design and the reward scheme, then you’d need it to be reduced to the point of not even being noticed. Or just removed entirely. Which includes the reputation rewards. It’s not just about the honor in Classic, you know?
I’m not against it per se, I’m against the separation. It’s much more feasible and better overall for the social health of the game itself, to just disable queuing as anything less than a full premade.
The only problem with that is the risk of those “Chinese Warsong PY teams” to become a thing here as well.
But it would get rid of the problem of “pug vs. premade”, just in the opposite way. This game was NEVER meant for solo players to succeed in, you know?
Thats a practical issue. If it can’t be adressed, then you (all) are right about premade vs premade bracket. I would hate these system exploits.
What you mean "succeed”? Because we keep dancing between having fun, ranks, gear and social rewarding. Since we are discussing ranked PvP, do you mean obtaining ranks and items?
I mean the reward scheme. To obtain rewards = succeed. And many of the “solo players” don’t play for ranks, so it’s not hard for such players to accept reduced or even removed honor from a solo queue separation. The problem is the increased amount of people obtaining reputation rewards, since this would lead to even more players obtaining such things. Which affects the perceived value of those items, and even further trivializes the PvE content since even more players would be getting geared up beyond its difficulty.
Ah yes, but then again, you are that one who doesn’t understand ripple effects and believes it to not be such a “multidimensional issue”.
So this will probably “fall on deaf ears” as it’s called.
I have a video link you’d just absolutely love. It’s full of people who doesn’t understand “big picture” things.
Dude, they are just complaining about not being able to casually join a BG and actually play, and not sit in a ghost form the whole time.
And I went to see your posts your referred to in this other thread, and man. Seriously, Trump supporters ? And the way you insult people about being slow and stupid ?
Why so much toxicity, might I ask ?
Can’t you see that Prokroustis is probably not a millenial Trump supporter with 70IQ, but more just another fellow gamer who has some reasonable expectations: playing BGs without having to organize and schedule time out for it, nor being stomped as the only other option ?
You speak about certain people bringing identity politics into the discussion, yet you are the one bringing freaking Trump videos to compare them to. Comparing them to someone who thinks Obama was in the oval office during 9 11, I mean dude.
So much for you being the one seeing the other side’s perspective. I love the empathy you show in your post, I can feel the love deep in my bones 
As. Already. Mentioned.
If they remove the options to queue as anything less than a full premade, it would increase the amount of people creating premades, which means it’d make it much easier to find premades to play with. It’d even make it easier to create a premade yourself.
It’s a domino effect. One directly leads to the other.
The reason I’m linking to that video is because it displays the failure to think, and how there actually exists such people who doesn’t understand things. Simple things. And how those kinds of failures can be seen quite often on this particular part of the forum.