How would you have any idea if my time is valueable or not?
Keep this as a discussion about the game, dont get personal.
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Point taken. My point still stands that it can not be seen as gambling since you don´t put money in the process itself.
What im refering too is how getting the epics work.
You put your âmoneyâ into the slot machine, in this scenario fragments, and you yank it hoping for the big price, there is no end in this design. Therefor my âesqueâ.
The game should be about working towards a goal, not be lucky to succeed. - if you catch my drift?
Im not saying its gamling, hence we dont pay real money to solve artifacts, but the whole idea behind it is alot like a slot machine.
Cosmetics im okay with being RNG, since there is no increase in power - its purely looks.
But items with value to the games purpose, should not be gated behind rng in a secondary proffession.
Well, I for one don´t really care if you guys get your toothpick or whatever sooner than perhaps never, but how would this bad luck protection look like? Getting a guaranteed rare solve after X amount of solves? Like 50,100,150?
I bet 50 would be too much for some and they would take arms on the forums.
Or perhaps you get a 10% chance after each solve for the next to be a rare.
I wish I would´ve just gotten my gruul tank shield back in the day.
I would suggest a minor increase in drop chance pr. solve you do in the specific race youâre solving in.
Should not be a high increase in chance, since im okay with it being difficult to get, it is a raid tier weapon - should be hard to get. ( i did afterall do 1400+ solves 
)
But simply a feeling of progression, is what it takes to make this better.
Sure you can be lucky and get it super early, but atleast you know that there is a means to an end
Is it really worth it to go through all that trouble for the sword?
I just checked the BWD normal loot table and the troll sword only seems slightly better than what you can get there in terms of raw dmg.
For the casual player maybe not, i totally see this point your making and i somewhat agree that the time spent is not worth it.
For some of the more âmin maxersâ in the game, this item will be very âimportantâ for progression in early stages.
Get you closer to the ilvl requirement to start farming heroics, it can make a big difference in going straight into heroic raids from the release of the raids etc.
Some teams who had more luck on RNG, will find the raid easier to clear than others.
Sword should be a 10% damage increase flat, from a HC dungeon weapon, which is alot.
If people want to put in the time it requires to get it, with BLP added, thats should be their own choice.
But there should always be a âfixedâ end to such a farm, in my opinion.
I would not consider myself a âcasualâ when it comes to WoW. However, i tried archaeology for a bit and so so bored whilest farming these dig sites. I´d rather farm for some Blacksmithing epic or something;D
Also as far as i understand it you only need a certain ilvl if you do heroics through the dungeon tool. Should be a different story when you play with a dedicated party of 5.
Itâs by far the worst farm i have done, i can totally agree with you.
If i could gain the same power from anything else, i would.
Sadly, no other item comes close. 
Farming pre bis in theory should not be time consuming or hard, but its a big help to it.
if you have multiple characters aswell, Having the âadvantageâ of slapping on epics from the get go, will highly improve that experience.
And thank you btw, for a great convo. 
I bet that lot of the same people complaining about the archealogy now will be in the forums few weeks after Cata releases qqing about how the heroics are too hard because they arenât mindless aoe zergs like wtlk heroics and they actually need to put in minimal effort to clear them.
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Oh i love me a good challenge, mindless aoe zerging is no fun at all!
I´m gonna disagree with you there. I dont mind if it´s hard and/or time consuming to get an item as long as i will get said item 100%. This digging nonsense is just pure timesink
I think you misunderstood me, sorry if i wrote it bad!
I was talking about the dungeon grind for the rest of the pre bis items from dungeon content, when you mentioned the ilvl requirement to the dungeons.
Pre raid bis is fun to farm, even if it takes time and is hard - you actually do fun content.
Digging on the other hand, is a rough route.
But i wouldnât mind it, if there was an end to it. - which was my hole point of the first post.
Which means effectively only stuff related to Crafting Professions, Reputations and JP because anything originating from dungeons is pure lottery. Large portion of the stuffâs gonna be there. And as you move through phases even more stuff (especially with how sweaty classic players seem to be) even higher emphasis will be put on HC Raid drops that will all be luck locked because even if youâre in a guild they need to drop.
Really depends. Guess how many people were willing to run Normal CoS ever since Phase 1. And that drops BiS for healers that in some cases lasted entire Wrath (Holydins only now can retire it since they rework made it unable to solve their mana issues). Had to resort to soloing the instance and with Prot Paladin⌠It was not fun and took forever (not to mention required quite high grade of gear to even pull off)
But doing dungeons is not a soul sucking activity comparing to archaeology:D
Have you ever tried soloing Culling of Stratholme with barely above Naxx25 Gear? Trust me I wanted to freaking die.
I did play my fair share of holy paladin during wrath, and this was not a fun grind at all.
Purely based on how Archaeology is a seconday proffession, it should not have this amount of power gain locked behind it.
They Knew that the proffession was a bad move, hence they didnât keep it relevant. Why not improve it this time
Yeah it wasnât. Especially since three out of four bosses could deal magic damage against which Prot Paladin had really nothing they could do. Meaning you took even longer since half the time you spent healing back just so you can survive.
Fair although in most cases said power will be relevant for only a single tier since maybe two items Iâm aware of are the absolute BiS for longer than a single phase.
Its not an improvement to guarantee you the epics.
Look, I understand your perspective. You spent countless hours trying to get the item you want and even though you hate it, you cant quit because then all those hours would be wasted (literally), but thats how RNG farms work.
There are people who did several ZG mount runs eacht week with several chars for the last 2-3 years and didnt get a single ZG mount, imagine how much time they wasted.
It sucks, but you and everyone else complaining knew what they were getting into when they started digging for the epics.
if you referring to that holy pally trinket than yes. I got that with naxx 25 gear after only a few runs. Not even more than 5. Pretty lucky.