Gotta play them 16s like they are 28s you know
Itâs not about how much the ret is doing, itâs about how close the other two are to me as a tank. Iâm a 480 BDK with no legendary. I shouldnât be anywehere near this close to them in damage. Especially not a havoc DH. But my point is that even with subpar damage, even keys on the higher end are very doable, considering this was a 3 chested +21.
I know youâre using this as an example rather than a personal complaint, so please donât take my response as a personal attack.
The thing is, it doesnât matter what the reasons are. If you (or anyone else) has a low score this season, it means you havenât done this seasonâs dungeons at a high enough level to gain useful and relevant experience. To me, when Iâm making a group, it doesnât matter why you lack experience. It only matters that you do lack it. I want to time my keys, so I want to invite people who show some evidence that they know what theyâre doing.
A competent havoc DH easily beats ret, but there arenât many of those around. Also, you seem to be only running low keys where the meters are heavily weighted towards specs that do high burst damage (one of retâs particular strengths). In higher keys (mid-20s and up) DoT specs become more useful and burst damage less relevant.
Anyone can get 2.7k this season. Itâs a meaningless number. (I had a healer with a 200 point higher score ragequit Rise +20 after dying FOUR times on Morchie - twice to the frontal, twice to letting the add hit them.)
Iâm happy to exclude anyone who isnât going to help me time my key.
I enjoy a random personâs company in a PUG if they perform well (damage, interrupts, playing mechanics, etc). M+ PUGs arenât a suitable place for socializing, because thereâs a timer and you wonât sit there and text-chat with people during the run.
The score, but especially the RIO profile, provides you with information that helps you gauge someoneâs potential performance and experience. Itâs not flawless, especially up to and including +20. People buy runs, get carried by friends or involuntary boosters. But itâs still more information that you can get from just gear, class or name. If you post a 18 or 20 key, you get dozens of applications. Everyone is just a class (and what they bring) and number in that case.
Even before the M+ score and RIO, people used impersonal metrics to select and decline players for their groups. In vanilla, it was âcome to bank for inspectâ, in WotLK it was GearScore, and so on. Outside of guilds and communities, your personality or likability never mattered when it came to getting accepted into groups. (Those do matter when it comes to playing more with people you initially met.)
Iâd not take a declination personally. It almost never is. If all else fails and you donât want to join a guild or a community, you can run your own key. Nobody is barred from doing M+.
4 Likes
It would also mean people couldnât help others with lower keys anymore unless they are using alts. Which is also bad.
Imagine you have to level an entirely new character just to be able to play with a friend who joined late in the season. Or even worse, imagine that friend gaining rating faster than you and now you can again not play togetherâŚ
A similar issue a friend of mine and I had in Overwatch 1 on Console ongoing from Season 3. He was stuck in Platinum Elo Hell, I was (as someone who never really played comp) quite fast in reaching Diamond tier. Whenever when he was playing with me, he had better chances of winning and also could play better due to a more capable team.
But whenever he was playing alone, he had more losses because the âtechnically on paperâ players were holding his gains back due to their own limitations/issues as a group, especially on the healer/tank parts.
It may sound âperfect on paperâ but it wonât be.
can you people start looking for a guilds to play with ?
like for realy - the lengths you all go with complaining about pugs yet you all play mmorpgs in compeltly abysmal way - in undorgarnized compeltly random groups hoping for miracles time after time that those randoms will perform like god knows what
play with guild - the nobody will be checking your scores and other stuff.
there is nothing wrong about logs too . if you want to improve logs are amazing tool for it.
Most of the people whining on forums donât want to improve.
I mostly just use them to check and then i go âYep, im still badâ and carry on
Because the top level gear is rewarded by content your not willing to do?
If IO was an indication of âexperienceâ and skill Zmok would time every single one of his keys but even with a full team of 3.6k IO and 487 they still fail keys, Sure the likelihood of them failing a 22 is slim with a score like that and more to the point they kinda outgear it.
(Seeing as my keys are not considered I would imagine 29-30 keys are high enough for you)
Doesnt take 2 minutes to say "Hey that was a nice run wanna run another
then seeing where the conversation goes from that, after the run is finished , Im not talking about sitting there have a life discussion with someone
This is 100% true people have always used some arbitrary system to try and judge a playerâs ability.
I did say if they were on a friends list or guildie then the rules wouldânt apply.
Im a member of 3 different guild all of which are doing various content and I can join any one of them in the content they are doing at anytime,
I have Mythic Raid guild on Tarren Mill and a guild on Argent Dawn doing Heroic and a guild on Aszune I help clear HC with so I am not short of people to play with.
This is generally what I say about myself too xD
I think this post is slightly losing itâs way and people seem to think itâs me crying about these stupid imposed rules by the WoW community, I am mainly asking the pug people (People who pug mostly) if they think all the hoops and requirements that the WoW Community impose and requirements that must be matched are too much?
As stated I donât care what the community decide to impose and request from me, Iâll be straight up honest and say I do not care about people IO and ILVL and I care about the attitude of the person, Game progress to me is more about having nice people to achieve things with and some people who might not be up to the standard of 28+ including myself but none of us want to push to those levels just for epeen rights and possibly personal âachievementsâ.
Me and some of my friends do no healer keys for the fun of it, Done 16 Everbloom with no heal but we just randomly try pushing no heals sometimes until we die too much xD, we also play âEscort The Noobâ and we take a seriously undergeared character into a M+ 16 -18 and we have to time and complete the dungeon whilst NOT letting the undergeared character die (In theory boosting them, But we donât care as itâs a friend)
Instant unsub if they remove the dmg meter.
Why gear up if you canât see dmg increases?
2 Likes
Why do you need to see someone elseâs DPS?
You can make comparisons to your own previous results
2 Likes
Why would you not?
1 Like
If there is no dmg meter⌠then you canât see your own dmg either.
You can have a damage meter in FF, they do exist, you just canât mention the damage meter. You canât highlight a player not doing damage etc. You canât post it.
They even have logs in FF, same thing though. Canât be discussed.
Score alone isnât an indication of âexperienceâ; itâs just an indication of highest keys timed. However, the number of keys timed at that level IS an indication of experience, and that information is also available through the addon.
Whatâs âarbitraryâ about checking to see what the player has already done?
No, theyâre fine. Weâre careful about who we choose when we need to fill a spot in one of our keys. I understand others being equally careful when needing to fill a spot in theirs, even if it does make it difficult for me to get accepted.
The damage meter isnât just about dps. It also shows you healing, interrupts, crowd control, defensive CD use, damage taken (including avoidable), and what players died to. Even if we timed the key, we use that information when deciding whether to invite a pug to stay for the next one.
This is why they use discord so heavily for communication that isnât permitted inside the game - like telling people they suck.
It really is just that though. Itâs a sum of completed keys with values assigned to them based on their level and the time it took to complete. Nothing more.
Because thatâs just seeing a number with no context.
You could go âoh wow this time I did 50k but last time I only did 40kâ meanwhile the other two DPS in your group are doing 200-300k and the healer doing 70k. It servers no purpose in terms of telling you if youâre doing something wrong.
And then youâll go âwell Iâve already improved so much, I think I got the hang of itâ, but no, because you donât even have a ballpark estimate of how much you should or could be doing.
Well, in all practicality nothing is really necessary given the state of the game.
What is the actual objective in WoW? In ye olden days, many would say the objective is to see Warcraft from a whole new perspective - travel the lands and explore as much as you can.
If you try to do that in retail WoW, you will very quickly discover that you barely even have to know how to touch a keyboard at all for 90% of it, and for the 10% of what remains itâs quite easy as well - but very little of this is actually engaging, and itâs certainly not social.
Once you get to the content where it could matter if you go for higher difficulties, you can see all of it by simply running normal mode dungeons and LFR, and youâre done.
Thatâs it, gg. Have a good day.
So if you play at any level higher than that thereâs gotta be something driving you that isnât exploration or content driven - instead itâs a sense of community around a competitive aspect of the game. Itâs like playing Tetris or Chess in a sense - nothing ever changes, and youâre just challenging yourself to do better than last time.
Eventually that challenging yourself leads you to having to play well. You want to experience the next thing, and thereâs nothing else going on, so getting growth is it.
And then you need it. Those pugs, by the way, are probably doing poorly because they havenât played with the tank before, so they might not optimize very well for his pull patterns. Youâre not gonna do 172k DPS in an AD +21 without getting into the weeds unless youâre pulling like 10 mobs at a time and pulling mobs into the boss. The basics arenât enough here.
What I described and what Cylaris is referring to is the basics of advanced play. It gets so, so much worse when we start talking about how to coordinate your powers with those around you to squeeze further.
1 Like
Ok seems that all these addons are necessary for people to âjudgeâ and basically use them as a determinate factor of a player ability/worth. Much the same way that people judge people in real life.
I guess the Multiplayer Gaming community has devolved into this cesspit of critique,ing others and all these addons do is try to give people a way of âprovingâ someone else sucks one way or another.
In M+ all it does is try to give a scapegoat for the failure of a key instead of a Group Failure
âX person they were doing 40k Less Overall DPSâ
âX didnt interrupt enoughâ
âX didnt heal enoughâ
âX didnt use defensivesâ
âX broke the CCâ
âX pulled too muchâ
I can pretty much guarantee anyone who defends these addonâs has said one or more of these statements at some point thus proving my point.
I have said that addons as a SELF ONLY optimisation tool along with Sims to give you a ballpark of what damage you could âexpectâ from yourself basically leaves you with no need to compare to other people anymore so you do NOT need to see someone elseâs full rundown of how much damage they are doing.
The main issue here is that WoW as a game has failed in what it set out to do which was bring people together to conquer great foes and adventure as teams and create connections of people and has basically been turned into a solo play game.
(Lets face it, It is not a true MMORPG in the sense of you having to know people and make social connections for you to succeed in the game anymore, A new player can log on and basically achieve a 3k rating within 1 month of reasonable amount of playtime.)
Are you aware that m+ is timed?
That bosses in raids have enrage timers?
If you donât stop casts, youâre just straight up wiping in higher keys. Even on like 14-20 keys you can wipe if mobs like augurs in AD are allowed to freecast or the thornshapers in WM.
Youâre literally unable to live if you donât use defensives in higher keys. You canât survive if you donât press them or if you do survive, you strain the healers mana so much that youâll probably wipe to them going oom.
As an example, if I get 4 bolts on archmage sol in a 25/26 everbloom on tyrannical, I die if I havenât pressed a defensive beforehand as will probably anyone else that gets 4 bolts, itâs also completely random who gets 4 instead of 3.
No. 3k rating is like top 5-6% or something. Youâre not getting there within a month of playing the game unless youâre getting dragged there by others. A new player would pretty much be a keystone terrorist.
Take a low WM I did with a new player in the group â guy got lost after he died and released and didnât know how to get back. We killed last 2 bosses without him. If someone did this in a 24 key, people would leave.