Like I see said in warhammer the war never ends 
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It was pretty consistent with his cata and prior character
Or sabotaged by Elves
We really can’t blame the goat ladies guys!
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This is my point. We’ve been the bad guys in so many situation, that it’s hard to even justify why anyone would allow the Horde to exist. We’re alive because of Plot-Armor and it honestly feels bad. How are you suppose to have any Faction Pride, when you know your Faction exists only because you can’t remove Races or Factions from the game.
Edit: Just take a look at how uneven we are in terms of known character numbers.
Horde Heroes: Rokhan, Rexxar, Voss, Thrall, Baine, Gazlow, Calia, Lor’themar - 8 in total
Alliance Heroes: Anduin, Jaina, Veressa, Aleria, Tyrande, Malfurion, Shandris, Maiev, Tyralyon, Moira, Fanstad, Muradin, Brann, Kudran, Dagran, Velen, Gelbin, Genn, Taelia. - 19 in Total
If I go by just leaders and not notable high ranked characters I get the following list:
(worried that I forget someone though)
Horde Leaders:
- Thrall: Former Warchief of the Horde.
- Baine Bloodhoof: Leader of the Tauren.
- Rokhan: Leader of the Darkspear Trolls.
- Lor’themar Theron: Regent Lord of the Blood Elves.
- Gazlowe: Leader of the Goblins.
- Ji Firepaw: Leader of the Huojin Pandaren.
- Thalyssra: Leader of the Nightborne.
- Mayla Highmountain: Leader of the Highmountain Tauren.
- Geya’rah: Leader of the Mag’har Orcs.
- Talanji: Queen of the Zandalari Trolls.
- Kiro: Leader of the Vulpera.
- Calia Menethil: Councilor of the Forsaken, member of the Desolate Council.
- Cindrethresh: Leader of the Dracthyr.
Alliance Leaders:
- Anduin Wrynn: High King of the Alliance.
- Council of Three Hammers: Leaders of the Dwarves.
- Gelbin Mekkatorque: Leader of the Gnomes.
- Tyrande Whisperwind and Malfurion Stormrage: Leaders of the Night Elves.
- Velen: Leader of the Draenei.
- Genn Greymane: Leader of the Worgen.
- Aysa Cloudsinger: Leader of the Tushui Pandaren.
- Alleria Windrunner and Turalyon: Leaders of the Void Elves.
- Jaina Proudmoore: Leader of the Kul Tirans.
- Azurathel: Leader of the Dracthyr.
As to who is bad or good, I too think that neither is good or bad per se.
In the questing I have done over the years, mainly on the horde side, I also did on the alliance side, and saw that in general we both do about the same things.
But still it felt for me somehow better on the horde side.
Little details like for example in this current DF expansion.
The Dracthyr in the horde size are eagerly exploring and happy, eating ice cream and discovering a cat.
Those in the alliance side seem to struggle, lost in the city, not heard about air defence and worst of all, just before departing to DF you hear some humans say that they want something to see through the vissages of those dragons asap.
In other words, there is no trust.
I tried to just mention the characters that are actually present and used in the Story. As alot of the Neutral or Allied Race Leaders like Ji, Kiro or Aysa haven’t actually had any releveance in the story about from just being the leaders of their respective factions.
Not to mention the disrespect for our characters… Vol’jin a character from way back in Warcraft 2, dies from being stabbed by Random Demon #22431… Varian, a character fully introduced in WoW, gets probably the most epic death cinematic in the entire game.
And after losing what, 3 Warchiefs? We have literally nothing to show for it… But Alliance loses a king and they rebuild a massive part of Stormwind… The bias towards Alliance is disgusting.
2…thrall just steppd down prior to cata, you only lose garrosh and sylvanas, the latter is “alive” and parked in the maw.
and yes, horde losee more famous charter, but in contrast alliance lose more land and citys.
Southshore and the entirty of hillsbrand
Thereamore
Darkshore
Nethergard
Darnasus/Teldrasil
you mean THAT part which was destroyed in cata and only was finaly rebuild in Legion?
which was…5 years (and 4 addons) while OG dindt get any damage, just an overhaul of the archittecture
yeah…so much for “alliance bias” 
OP, you’re thinking of it in the wrong way.
You shouldn’t change factions solely on this.
Let’s get into metaphysics, there is no good or bad in reality, just perspectives.
Like the Ying and Yang symbol, or like to make a drawing you need both tones of white and black, which also creates tones of grey.
What I mean is “bad” is absolutely necessary for the creation of reality, there is no “good” without “bad”, no comparison, just a neutral state.
It’s hard to call something “bad” when existence itself depends on it.
When an Alpha lion kills cubs, we call it nature. When a human does the same, we call it “evil”. See, this is just our “human perspective”, there is no universal law that defines it as such.
So when people say if there was a God then why does “bad things happen” well, actually God made creation perfect, no human mind could do a better job, it’s only our limited human perspective that can find faults “this is bad for me” etc.
So just play with whatever you think is cool, or benefits you in some way or another. Don’t worry about it.
Imagine what video games or stories would be like with no “bad” roles. Ha, how can you hate the bad guys in that context.
Yes exactly that part. Alone that fact that Stormwind is actually getting regular updates for the story. Got destroyed by Deathwing, got repaired. That’s literally more work than has been put into all of Orgrimmar. We still have half-built building in the Drag and the entire back enterance is literally just scaffoldings for expanding the city, which have now just stood there since Cataclysm, with nothing happening.
Hell, just look at the NPC count for the cities. Stormwind have ~50% more NPCs than Orgrimmar (1080 Orgrimmar, 1550 Stormwind), because of all their Vanity NPCs, kids running around playing, citizens walking around enjoying their day, stuff that makes the city actually feel alive.
Historically, because they had better Racial Abilities for raiding. For years, much better.
Therefore, since the Horde Racials made the game easier, most top guilds and players transferred to Horde.
Blizzard did - eventually 
- tone down the power of the racials, and balanced them, but too late: an overwhelming number of the competitive players were already Horde, and new players who want to progress will natiurally go where the larger concentration of successful guilds are,
Oh you must have missed the part where in cata ALL OF ORGRIMMAR GOT UPDATED!
And get even a back entrance which doesn’t exist until Cata.
And didn’t get any damage during Cata and siege of Orgrimmar while stormwind lose an entire district (!!!) Which doesn’t get replaced until legion, a large gaping hole and lion rest is even a downgrade.
Plus the damage on the valley of heroes with multiple statues damaged and onee thrown into the water plus both guard tower with the glowing claw traces of deathwing and the dmg on the clocktower over the second prison.
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Basically Yes. The Horde are the bad guys. Human vs Orcs are pretty much derived from high fantasy and especially the Lord of the Rings and roleplaying games like D&D. In that enviroment Orcs are definitely the bad guys. When it comes to the Horde itself it was, in the beginning, a group of monsters against elves, dwarves and humans. Derived from popular fantasy the horde consisted of Orcs, Undead, Tauren(monster in greek mythology.) and Trolls(also a monster in high fantasy)
The scene have changed during all the years WoW has been here but in the beginning Horde definitely was the evil side. I know several of my friends made Horde characters because they wanted to play an evil character.
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Yes and no depending on how you look at it.
Quick run down of the history.
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Sagaras the mad titan was banished from Azaroth by the Guardian, who was pregnant at the time.
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Whilst being banished, Sagaras semi-possessed and corrupted Medivh (Super powerful Human Mage) whilst Mediev was in his mother’s womb.
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As an adult, Medivh discovered Dreanor and the Orcs, as well the the draenei.
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Medivh had a plan to conquer Azaroth using the Orcs.
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Medivh used magic to contact some power hungry Orc Guldan, and begun the 1st steps to the Orc’s corruption by offering of power (fel). Guldan was a powerful Shaman.
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Medivh planed to have the Orcs built a portal to Azaroth, and then to wage war to conquer it. He believed the Orcs respected strength and power, and who is more powerful then him, therefore, once they conquered Azaroth, they would serve him.
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Orcs arrive on Azaroth, and launch a huge war via the dark portal. They decimated many human and High Elf forces.
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The alliance was created to stop them.
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WarCraft 1 and 2
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Orcs ultimately lost the war.
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Surviving orcs were placed in concentration camps. The defeat left the remaining orcs broken spirits, and husks of their former selves.
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A generation later, Orcs are eventually freed from the camps and united under Thrall.
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Enter WC3
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Enter WOW.
If you think about it, the Horde was created by the Orcs.
The Orcs who were foreign invaders to Azaroth, who brought a savagery never seen before by the mortal races. The Orcs did in fact sack Stormwind at one point, and nearly won the war. Also note that the Orcs also destroyed their own homeworld and nearly brought the remaining draenei to near extinction.
In this light, the Orcs were the original bad guys… Kinda.
A key part to understand is how the Orcs got corrupted.
On Drenor, the Orcs were very shamanistic tribal people, with a strong sense of honour. They aimed to live in harmony with nature and the spirits, and respected strength and honour.
One day the draenei fell onto the Orcs homeworld, and named it Draenor. The draenei were essentially refugees fleeing the Legion. They kind of kept to themselves, as they saw the Orcs as younger more primitive race, but respected it was their culture, and as well as the fact the world was the Orcs first. The draenei also wanted to keep it low key as to avoid the Legions attention. They also hoped to share the world and watch as the Orcs developed over time. Ultimately, they were friendly to the Orcs, but didn’t look to interact much above the minimum.
Once the legion discovered the draenei were on Drenor, a grand scheme was formulated.
A few Orcs become tempted by visions of power from Medivh. Guldan orchestrated a propaganda campaign to unite numerous Orcs tribes as a Horde with a single leader - The War Chief. (the war chief was a puppet of Guldan’s dark council)
The propaganda worked well, and the Orcish Horde started a war against the Draenei without provocation or warning.
The draenai were not push overs, but what tipped the favour greatly to the draenai was during the war, the elements stopped supporting the Orcs, and they lost their Shamanistic powers - resulting in many casualties on the Orc side.
This was part of Guldan’s plan, and offered the former shamans new power where they they didn’t need to beg the elements for scraps - the new magic was that of the legion - fel Magic.
This lead to the Orc shamans becoming Warlocks.
This was lead to the physical change in Orcs, where their skin from brown to green, and made their eyes glow red.
The Orcish warriors were given the blood of Mannoroth to drink which empowered, them with fel strength and a great bloodlust - but ultimately made them bound to the legion.
It is important to note, that even Orcs who didn’t drink the blood got corrupted slowly, and their Skin started to also turn Green over time, and new Orcs born were green skinned, such as Thrall. (these orcs dont have red eyes)
The end result is with the legions backing via fel magic and demonic bloodlust, the Orcs won the war against the draenai, but basically ravaged Dreanor in the process.
The world became barren, and the Orcs were heading for starvation - as well as an inevitable civil war for power to satiate their bloodlust.
Medivh via Guldan offered them a new world to conquer - Azaroth, and had them build a portal to Azaroth.
So whilst the Orcs were foreign invaders responsible for the destruction of their world and the near genocide of the draenei. As well as the deaths of many of native Azaroth’s races (Elves, Dwarfs Humans etc) - this only happened due to a corrupted human mage. But the mage himself was influenced by Sagaras - which was all a part of Kil-Jadens desire to wipe out the draenei.
On the surface, the Orcs are the bad guys, but they were cleverly manipulated to be.
Then something something - the Jailor master minded it all.
Ditch the hand-holding stuff and bring back the good ol faction wars.
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You’re being incredibly dramatic - it’s a game, play what makes you happy, win or lose have no consequences here.
Yes and not.
The orcs were initially manipulated, but before the end of the first war, Orgrim killed Blackhand and the shadow council.
Orgrimm was not a corrupt orc, but he still decided to continue the first war until the fall of Stormwind.
Not satisfied, he would start the second war, but not before invading Khaz’Modan (and also trying to take Gnomeregan) in order to obtain the natural resources of the area.
In Warcraft 3, Grommash, instead of retreating from Ashenvale, prefers to voluntarily corrupt himself again, in order to forcibly take territory from the elves.
Years later, Garrosh, a Mag’har orc, begins a new genocidal war against the alliance races.
Orcs have been and always will be a problematic race. They are the lineage of the breakers (Like the ogres and the Gronn). As we have seen in the recent relate (Where they kill the hydra), even as children they yearn to go into combat.
They are also very prolific, so sooner or later they will start wars again when they need more natural resources and they remain a threat to Azeroth
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Yes, manipulated at the beginning, atill without that the orcs and horde march to war.
Grom and his men drank the demon blood again for power.
Garrosh stated the qar against the alliance and the whole hirde followed blindly.
Again under sylvanas leaderships they started another war and comiity atrocious, completely willingly.
Also the orc in alternative dranei dindt drink the blood but still werw warmongers who start to extermination the draenei there, ao the demon blood or manipulated is no vaild excuse sind wven without that and With a clear consciencethey commout the atrocities.
Its in the nature of the horde to start war and being savages.
Yes, Garrosh, no corrupted orc, still start war and horde follow
Sylvanas, undead elf ,also no corruption and still start another war and everyone follow without hesitation.
The whole tricked excuses is with that no valid
