Can you fix this dog shait please, they’re literally the most useless thing.
You run over it, pick up a increased damage taken buff and rogues step/sap you whilst you have it. Wait for the duration to end and then just open again. What’s even the point of having them in the first place?!
20 Likes
The eyes having its own counterplay is fine, the problem is more the duration. The dmg taken debuff should be either reduced or removed entirely as well, since a rogue can 100->0 you if you have no immunities much easier when you go to pick it up.
2 Likes
Be intelligent … revive your partner, he will have to sap you or open, do it again, he will sap again, again, wow now you are on triple sap DR, amazing, go pick up the eye, either he opens or you get him, but he will not be able to sap you with the eye.
The amount of people crying at problems that are actually missplays is incredibly high these days.
1 Like
Lmao be intelligent, I’ll make sure that I strategically place my team mates body in a ress-able are where I can get distance between me and the rogue.
You’re the one telling me how to counter play it when you’re the rogue.
Try playing an enhancement shaman and do what you’ve just told me, I’ll patiently wait here
6 Likes
There are several classes rogues can 1v1. Even moreso if they get room to run around on for example tol’viron where your camera can’t check the three pillars in time before the duration wears off, with you running around dodging the opponent as well.
It’s a problem with its duration and the increased damage with this damage pace, so you either get killed after having just picked it up if you don’t play something that can 1v1 a rogue if a rogue gets the opener on top of the increased dmg taken from the eye, or you sit the triple sap DRs with the duration running out if you have nothing to force a sap while waiting for the eye to spawn.
Don’t act like the eye can’t be countered by a rogue. It definitely can. There are also ways to use the eye properly, but it’s a mind game with you being disadvantaged as the one who has to go for the eye. They need to even the odds more.
Something like increasing the duration, removing the dmg taken debuff (it really isn’t needed in this pace), and having it spawn randomly right next to players when players are out of combat at a random time between X-Y amount of seconds so it can’t be planned for, to prevent rogues playing like toxic morons. THAT would even the odds more. You’d be more incentivized to open sooner, still with a way to outplay the eye if you can los the player during the eye and then get in a triple sap DR when they get close, instead of it being tilted in the rogue’s favor which it currently is in a 1v1 and the class you play ends up deciding it like now.
Because it being gone just a few moments after you got triple DRed after you picked up the eye, is massively tilted in the rogue’s favor. Or maybe it was during the saps that the duration expired, haven’t had a situation like that since Legion so can’t remember exactly.
the only thing i find strange with the eyes is how i am unable to see the nameplates of the stealthed player i am targetting when i have the eye
i have to place my camera in weird angles to see where they are in this case while spamming
maybe it’s some issue with my UI it never bothered me that much so i left it as it is
3 Likes
If you believe that the eyes are actually useful at detecting rogues then idk what to tell ya.
You could literally play to 100% damp as double rog if you wanted to.
7 Likes
No there is not a you problem, you can only see the silhouette of the guy but there is no nameplate.
I think Subterfuge should not be a thing.
1 Like
In an arena, definitely. Almost all actually. Still if this guy is going to increase his chances regarding the moment he has access to the eye it will be by taking in when DR’ed, and the class he plays has a way to force it, so he might as well use it instead of complaining.
It never means you always win (as you said you may still not catch, or he may survive long enough), but still if there is a way to win is starts by playing the duel with all the odds you can get.
Yes, and I said it. But again, if you are to win, and the guy is running and you want to use the eyes, then you have to use them when you are on DR. Else you waste them. Simple. There is no arguing there. It is how it is. If you can’t revive and so can’t force the DR then you have to take it and get sapped, and IMMEDIATELY go for the other eye while the 20s DR is rolling. If you don’t try like this (even though it might not give results anyway, we do agree) then don’t try at all 'cause this is the best way.
My point exactly, which didn’t warrant a novel about the metaphysics of stealth duels in an arena scenario.
Doesn’t latter where the corpse is. You just revive wherever and at one point to stop it he’ll have to sap or open. And then you have a DR and cannot be sapped for 20s. And THEN the eye is the play. If you don’t take it at that moment then don’t even try to take it. That’s just the best time. It won’t always make you win, but it starts there.
On some maps, and against some comps only, don’t act like it’s ways a given, but yes, it is possible and they shouldn’t leave it as is. For one class stacking, especially same role class stacking, and spec stacking, should be entirely disabled so we don’t have to deal with stupid stuff like double DH rsham in bfa, double destro, or, in SL, multiple rogues.
So… you’re trying to tell me you have a better chance at finding the Rogue without the eye than with the eye ? 'Cause this conversation is about using the eyes the best way.
It is undeniable that you stand a better chance if you have them as you can see and target him. No argument there. Since this gives you an increased chance you light as well use it properly and not like a monkey. This is ALL it is about. It doesn’t mean “you’ll magically teleport to an unstealthed rogue and he will surrender”.
The point of the post and the wall of text was this, which conveniently was summarized right after what you decided to quote there:
And then a huge chunk of text with how they can even the odds more, and how it’s definitely tilted in the rogue’s favor the way it works right now, and has worked for quite a long time now.
Only some classes/specs can overcome that disadvantage, in certain conditions. Not everyone though. Which is a horrible way for it to work, and makes you want to quit playing the game when it happens.
But yes, the OP messed up. But that doesn’t mean it’s ok for the eyes to work the way they do right now.
1 Like
Actually, yes.
The only way to successfully do it is to pretend to go for the eye and be lucky with aoe before he saps you.
No, that’s when the Rogue is an idiot, sorry. If the Rogue has half a brain he will just stay out of LoS when you pick the eye (so maybe you won’t even spot him), and will strafe sap IF you do find him AND reach him. And that’s why you want to have a full DR on you, that way if you do manage to pinpoint his location and get there on mount he has no choice but to open or be found, unless you took too long finding him and the eye runs out during Sprint (as you can’t really catch up during sprint, even on mount).
There is absolutely no one with a flicker of intelligence who would wait near the eye in the AoE range of a class that has an AoE. As a Rogue you gain NOTHING by being near the eye, and you expose yourself to AoEs or to being found right when they pick it. Again, not a single intelligent being would do something that has two detrimental effects, and no beneficial one.
Excactly.
So what does that tell you about the usefulness of the eyes?
Edit: Even as feral people have a hard time getting me, and I don’t have half the droppings a rogue has for stealth-stalling
That it is still better than not to have them. You cannot see the player without them and he could afk until 100% damp with you having zero ways of getting him. With them, he has many ways to elude you still, but you could get him in some scenarios. Better have a few chances than zero.
1 Like
Shadow Sight was change in patch 2.4 and havnt changed since then(?) while the rest of the game changed massively.
Getting any use out of shadow sight vs a competent stealth class is simply not happening for most classes, especially vs rouges.
One could even argue that in many situation by taking the buff you actually help the enemy due to 5% increased damage taken.
The buff is there to stop cheesy stalling which isnt realy working as intended any longer.
A welcome #change would be that the buff would make you immune to cc that do not put you in combat that way it would force the stealther to open.
2 Likes
In my opinion, they should make nameplates show up. Against a lot of classes you can delay for a long time but you also have no choice but to stall in a lot of cases. Nameplates allow a fair number of classes to use aoe at least to counter, although, the rogue would just mount up and run around the pillar.
Also the respawn rate should be changed to something like 30s or 60s. To be honest, I think the only issue generally is when there are two rogues though. If a match ends healer vs rogue and the rogue is stalling for dampening, healers should just leave imo. I don’t think any healer should be able to 1v1 a dps class as a general rule.
Depends. If you make healers too weak then they will never be able to heal in 3s. So their healing needs to be able to put up with damage. Their damage done however is another story, that deserves to be looked at and tuned down.
But then dpriests becomes kinda unviable. (Their mana regen really needs to be looked at if the damage is tuned down by healers.)
It has a domino effect if you mess too much with the design.
If healers becomes too weak then triple dps becomes a thing. That’s an indicator of when healers are too bad.
The design intentent of the buff is to stop that behaviour which we all can agree is no longer working as intended most of the time.
As a rogue you can sap your oponent before he gets to the buff but the moment your oponent gets the buff it should make a difference.
Getting a rogue out of stealth with the buff who pillar hump and spam sap is simply not happening for most classes.
If it ends in a 1v1 you failed in the previous step and let it come to that, why should you be able to stall out dampening with no counter play?
Why the hell should they have counterplay, when their LITERALLY ONLY PURPOSE is to be counterplay on afk stealthers that waste time for dampening :DDD
Stupid much?