Arms unstoppable

PVP Arenas
23

Yeah he is using defensives at every moment he needs. Do they even have cds? I had many games when I was hitting him non-stop for more than a minute and he kept taking barely any damage (at same time murdering me with bursts).

They put some slows on me so I move with snail speed, and shaman runs on his totems which keep healing him + he heals himself with instant casts.
Tbh, barely any healer even casts anything now (except for priests).

Maybe it has something to do with:

  1. arms having insane healing reduction
  2. arms is ultra tanky and barely needs healing so their healer can focus on it’s own survival safely

I mean we were grinding 1700+ for 10 hours today, got to 1780 several times but then sprees of games vs arms+anything came and pushed us back, rinse and repeat. As soon as there aren’t arms (and maybe hunters) we won most of the games, but arms are in every game above 1750 now. Ended at 1720 where we started, RIP time. It happens nearly every day now and is getting boring.
I don’t see alternatives, switching to NF won’t magically fix everything (and since we beat almost every NF DH team why would I become those weaker DH?). And I don’t have time to gear any other character.
This game should be renamed to World of Arms, because there’s barely anything else left at this point, they are in every game and countering everything easily.
Sometimes we meet arms that keep hitting cycloned people, and they reached 1.7k somehow. Imagine that. If it isn’t proof of something being OP I don’t know what is.

Yes I do them but warrior just don’t take damage at all, and then defensives end and I need to flee or get oneshotted by his random swing, so he gets healed. So it’s completely pointless even trying.

He has 99999999 more things to oneshot me if I dare to come near without blur.

Yes but he needs to heal me (while enemy ‘healer’ absolutely murders me with this legendary stuff and lava bursts). While arms barely needs healer at all. Obvious disadvantage.

He ALWAYS has something up, he just rotates his defensives forever not giving any attack window at all (at best - he takes some damage for several seconds but then their healer insta-full-heals him anyway). And his offensives are defensives too because I can’t get near or he’ll oneshot me.

No, he just slows me, roots, stuns, runs around wall with extra speed etc. I do dps when I catch him but can’t stay on him for long (and then he insta-full-heals of course).

Yes it happened, so I just had to kite and run away (staying near arms is suicide) so healer outhealed and arms returned to our healer.

24

There’s the thing. You need to get people’s defensive cooldowns out when you aim to kill them. They will be unkillable when they have all of those ready, but when you make them use htose, they become killable. You trade your cooldowns for theirs and eventually kill them when yours come back and they have none. If you spread your cds among the two targets, they’ll have enough defensives to cover all of that and you will be the one running out of CDs first.

25

The only big cd is metamorphosis which doesn’t directly do damage anyway. Everything else is mostly eye beams and normal rotation.
But if I don’t switch on their defensives what else is there to do? Hit into defensives?

26

That depends on your comp a bit, but it might be a clever idea to for example have your druid cyclone someone for the duration of their def cd and then go back onto them once the CD ends. Or MC if it’s a priest. Or still do the swaps onto the other target for some sort of pressure, but not committing any cooldowns to that.

27

But I don’t even have ‘cooldowns’.

28

Even something that has 30-60 seconds of CD could be a cooldown allowing for a kill setup. Something like an eye-beam if you play demonic. Or whatever covenant ability you have. Or your stun.

29

Yes I try to time them to when and where I need them to apply, but it doesn’t help vs arms. Nothing helps.

30

because you are not doing any dmg. If you would pressure the rshaman with all cds he cant do dmg to you outside of earthele and you should outheal that easily.

parry is the only big defensive cd from arms warrior where you do almost zero dmg to him. there is no point in hitting him when he uses that. its 1.5 min cooldown. Other than that warrior has no big defensive cooldowns.

a rshaman can never kite a dh with slows only

reverse etc.

he cant stun you, you can kill the totem instantly

??? you are a dh. you are super mobile. if you would stop wasting all your mobility for nothing you could stick to healer forever.

thats your problem not your class problem

i explained to you what you did wrong and you still dont want to take any advice. i dont understand it.

3 Likes
31

With what cds? Defensives?

I should outheal? Wait, am I missing something, DH has self-healing???

From all classes we faced arms take like 2x less damage on average than others, outside of parry. I have no idea how or why.

Slows + running around pillar like a boss.

1 minute cd.

How about this ‘war stomp’ or whatever. Also while I kill totem he runs away and heals.

Not around walls. Fel rush → fel rush → felblade is the only way to quickly get to the opposite side (even that is not guaranteed and not instant like mage’s blinks) and those have cds.

32

your offensive cds. if you would be nightfae you go meta Hunt him and do like 5k dps single target for some time forcing healers to play defensive.

you have Leach. Thats enough to outheal rshaman for some time especially during your burst windows. if you do 2k dps though of course its not enough.

they take 20% less dmg in def stance but also do less.

why is your shaman not doing that? warriors are way easier to kite than DHs.

ah 0.5 sec stun prevents you from killing rshamans who are 99% orcs anyway.

totem is onehit

33

I get them to play defensive, problem is they can play defensive forever while arms is destroying my healer. UNLESS they do mistake, in which case we win. But if they are good (something that will happen more often as cr goes up) - we have zero chance.

I’ve experimented with it and highest I got on arenas was some 10-15% in demonic form (so to heal 1.5k I need to do 10-15k damage), that is if I sacrifice Nether Walk for Soul Rending (10-20% leech) and I have rank 5 Shard of Rev (+60 leech, nerfed to +30 arenas, actually increases it by like 1%).
It’s only enough when demonic form is up, and not vs every healer.

It looks like they just stay in def stance until their stuns are up, then they try to burst me, and then back to def stance again. How do I counter that?

No idea, but I tried with many healers of different classes and arms warriors kill them very fast (thanks to healing reduction most likely).

So 1 gcd, no?

34

This 2 have nothing to do with

35

Main issue is that with the build you are running you don’t have offensive pressure.

If you are running with a healer you should go netherwalk.

Take First Blood and mortal dance, they synergize very well and you always need a mortal strike on your team. Essence break is useless in pvp, it’s way too easy to counter. Remove glimpse, it’s good in certain bgs but not reliable in arenas unless you are runnning a momentum nf build.

Similarly you should run chaotic imprint instead of detainement, it’s 10% damage every few seconds since you deal chaos damage. If you ever run double dps there is a trick you can do. Before the match starts keep switching in and out the talent, it will switch which school of magic your glaives buff. Get fire for a fire mage, nature for a boomie etc.

Change your legendary, you can’t have a reliable set up with a random procs like this. Go with collective anguish with the fel devastation conduit for added consistency and survivability.

I would advise you go NF but you wouldn’t listen to it, alternatively necrolord is an option for a more sustain build. If you really want to stick to venthyr switch to Nadja though.

36

Because arms will kill him anyway thanks to huge healing reduction.

I outdps everybody in almost every game (arms included), sometimes 2x or 3x. It’s just less bursty.

They absolutely don’t synergize with mastery builds since they don’t benefit from mastery and would lead to dps loss. I tried it and 25% healing reduction is not worth dps loss from adding blade dance into rotation.

Idk, it saved me tons of times. Even helps vs R/M and the hunt, and warlocks (where I can just vg when chaos bolt comes at me to shrug it off).
Works even better in multi-layer arenas where I can vg from top floor and then glide, ignoring most damage.
I’d say it’s my best defensive.

Ahhh, didn’t know that, then it would make sense to use it, also would stack nicely with Serrated Glaive conduit.
This sounds like a game changer actually, eye beams gonna hit so hard now (and they were strong already).

There’s 40% chance, it’s a big deal and has no cd (I even got 6 eyebeams in a row once, in arena). Double and triple eye beams happen very often and do lots of damage (especially with Isolated Prey where first eye beam increases damage dealt by 10% so next eye beam hits harder).

It has one serious drawback - you can’t aim fel devastation while channeling, so enemy can just move out of the way and it will be wasted. Double eye beams happen often enough and are superior since you can aim them precisely and also continue at new location if needed (eyebeam->felrush->eyebeam etc). You can even fakecast them if you see cd reset and then continue again after kick. Also Serrated Glaive conduit benefits eye beams but not fel devastation, no?

Well it’s not because I’m stubborn, but because my winrate vs NF DHs is like 75% and I outdps them in total almost every time (even if we count the hunt in). Don’t remember seeing any necro DH at all though.

37

in these 2 games you showed you did extremly low damage. Thats not forcing them to play defensive.

stun them in offstance, pressure healer so they have to come back and peel and you can start cleaving 2 targets.

38

Because I tried to save healer and had to constantly switch and cc, that’s why.

Yes but healer just needs 1 or 2 seconds of not being stunned to heal to full.

39

you safe your healer by doing dmg and forcing them to play defensive. not by randomly jumping around the map

and? you pressure healer, warriors comes to help and intervene = you cleave both

40

Yeah I misread there. Warrior will jump, stun me, then healer insta heals and warrior gets back to my healer.

I guess it depends on healer, with rdruid it’s very hard to pull this off.

41

If you did 3 times the pressure of an arms warrior the shaman would have died.

Mastery is bad for havoc, haste is better in every way. With the buff your demon blades hit really hard and you want to swing as fast as possible to maximize their damage, plus get felblade procs. I understand what you are trying to do with theotar but you are taking the problem in reverse, by trying to focus on that stat a bad covenant gives you even though said stat is bad. You are better off playing to your strengths.

Also do not sleep on mortal strikes effect, pretty much every comp wants one. Don’t forget they are added to dampening and will lead to the healer emptying their mana much faster. Essentially if the ennemy has a mortal strike and you don’t in a match up where you both have a healer you are going to loose, unless you can set up a burst. But then you refuse to play NF which is your best burst option. That’s incoherent.

It can save you from predictable stuffs like a fear or a bolt, which you have other ways to counter (silence, los), unless you have godlike game awareness you wont be able to use it to dodge instant ccs. And it makes you loose out on excellent damage increase.

You are basic yourself off a best case scenario: you are getting procs, this is a set up, the ennemy doesn’t have a response (cd or kick), his team mate neither. You might aswell get proc at useless times and not get them when you need them. By not running CA you miss out on reliable damage and insane self healing. Again paradoxally your leggo would be better in a burst nf build to cheese out strings of beams, but with your more sustain set up you would benefit greatly from the healing and sustained damage.

You can actually, even though the animation doesn’t move the damage does, as long as your beam hit them they will take the damage.

NEVER fake cast eye beam. If you don’t finish the cast you wont proc eyes of rage, if they kick you they aren’t blocking you since it’s chaos and they are wasting a kick they could have used on your healer.

Indeed but serrated glaives isn’t a great conduit. You have much better options.

The total damage isn’t all that important in pvp, you need damage that matters.

1 Like
42

That’s a skill issue. As a warrior you will not be able to land a single hit on a decent MW monk. You teleport, ring, the cancerous knockback on lightning which is if timed right can stop warriors mid-charge, incap with lower CD than berserker rage, the ring and disarm.
Also you are complaining against Nightelf warriors, really? Who even plays those?

No, die by the sword has a 90 sec cooldown (with average conduits). That’s what you have addons for. And it still will not block spells, only melee attacks. There is HP shout but it has even bigger CD (3 min if not talented, and noone talents it in 2s). Your job isn’t killing warriors anyway. You just cleave him down when he goes to help his healer.

Yeah except you have 2 fel rushes, backflip and felblade. Instant casts outside of cooldowns arent even that strong so you can wear him down on mana if not straight out kill him.

What does it has to do with your healer kiting him around the pillar? Also rsham with Dwayne can 1v1 arms warrior pretty nicely if the war doesn’t get healing since he has no self heal.

No because you will also need to fix your UI and learn which cooldowns you have to track and why.

Sometimes I meet demon hunters that keep pressing random buttons whole game and they reached 2.1k somehow. Imagine that. If it isn’t proof of something being OP I don’t know what is.

Because you don’t track his cooldowns. You don’t even know what his cooldowns are. Let me ask you right away, what does Warbreaker do, what does Avatar do and what does Bladestorm do? What cooldowns do they have? Even better, what does Def stance do?

As I said above, arms loses in 1v1 against resto shaman. You have at least leech.

What? Tell me please what does he have up? You have addons installed, so you must know?

What about your venthyr ability? Oh wait its useless. Shouldve played nightfae for the extra cooldown, huh?

But you literally did that. You switched to shaman after warrior pressed his defense and then you wasted all your mobility cooldowns just to get back and kept hitting warrior with his parry up.

Go Night Fae. It was your super smart choice to go Venthyr for some reason.

Bro you even play with the Leech Talent. Are you trolling or what?

Maybe you can read through his abilities for once.

What does warrior has to run around the walls? Nothing lmao. You can use leap + charge which might not even work depending on angle, at least you have 2 dashes and 1 jump.

You know that arms outside of sharpen with somewhat big CD has exactly the same healing reduction as you? Don’t tell me you play without that talent? Then don’t complain.

It’s your problem that you play meme build that doesnt work properly. Noone told you to go mastery. You complain about healing reduction and blatantly refuse to take the talent that would give you the equal grounds.

Except shaman can wind shear you and your tripple eye beams become nonexistent. What is your strategy now?

And then warrior used charge and jump, so your shaman can slow/root him, run behind the pillar and laugh at warrior who is unable now to do anything.

1 Like