Oh right, I almost forgot. Rogues even managed to dodge (huehue) the whole GCD debacle… they are almost unaffected by that aswell.
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Yes, exactly!!!
They have the largest arsenal of baseline utility.
Warriors baseline has:
Intimidating Shout
Leap
Die by the sword (3min cd) Three entire minutes!!!
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I like how rogues stopped answering and defending their class when warlocks got into the discussion… Warlocks, and many other classes, have lost half of their spellbooks in utilities. Rogues remained unaffected of the heavy pruning and they have the highest representation in pvp leaderboards… Together with resto druids. Check their spellbook for example and compare it to priests… Abyssmal gap…
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According to xunamate warlocks have the highest representation of all the dps spec’s. Higher than assassination rogues. They are however bested by holy paladins and rdruids.
Poor poor warlocks. Being behind two healer spec’s in representation. Must be tough.
yeah must be rough being a warlock always having 1-2 viable-t1 specs since TBC and being top of the pve ladder simultaneously since the dawn of man
When the hell do you people realize that numbers are not the main fun factor?
My damage output is result of painfuly boring and idiotic ramp up preparation?
Do you think that this is fun? It is not!
I would rather do less damage, but have more pleasant damage dealing mechanics, and get rid off puppeteer design that doesn’t work at all.
Tell me have any of your spells has huge delays like this?
And all my demons has simmilar delays.
Or spells that just doesn’t work in some areas of the game?
Because of people whom scream that warlocks are fine because they do more damage then i, my class are ruined and cripled by freaking broken class design.
Yes, you are right, however other days is the opposite. What we have to realize is that destr warlocks are really broken because of one and only spell.
The issue here is rogues toolkit remained almost unaltered and unpruned all these years giving to the class a sustained level of fun and efficiency no other dps class shares.
Dont you agree other classes should be unpruned too?
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Blizzard Guide to Buff Rogues
Step 1: Prune everything (exept Rogues)
Step 2: Prune everything again (exept Rogues and Mages)
Step 3: Give everything new abilities (including Rogues and Mages… but exept Warlocks)
Step 4: Nerf everything (GCD)
Step 5: Revert nerf to Rogues…
Rogue’s design is disgustingly overpowered.
It used to be that finding in stealth was punishing for them. Now they don’t care, they just use their openers even after leaving stealth for 3 seconds.
Used to be that because they were so good at picking fights and avoiding damage and controlling, that they didn’t have self-heal, now that’s gone too.
Imo their design should look like this:
-
no self heal (doesn’t make sense for class who avoids damage and can at will prolong match… it rewards prolonging game)
-
opener possible only while stealthed
-
stealth movement reduction (to 70% of normal or something like that) - it makes zero sense that stealthed character moves faster, it’s stupid both fantasy-wise and design-wise, it makes them very hard to reveal them, even when they don’t care and even when they don’t do any effort to avoid getting detected…
it also makes it possible for them to prolong matches, because when somebody picks the revealing eye in arena, they can just run around, fast af, sprint and avoid getting touched and annoy you for 10 minutes no problem
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Yes please, Arms feels so bad at the moment and it’s sad, because I’ve played warrior since forever.
Here is something I still dont understand. Why does melee class that has already overloaded kit with cc, mobility and selfsustain need more passive control.
Autoattacks apply 3 debuffs with 100% uptime on the target:
Wound poison
Crippling and
Mind Numbing
All affect the healer in some sort of way. And to top it off even if you dispel them the next auto that connects aplies them again. You try to get away from the rogue. Dispel, he just throws poisoned knife again and the poisons are on you again. On the long run the poisons effect start to be so overpowering that you cant even heal through the dmg anymore.
Another thing is absolutely mindless is the shadowstep on assasination, why is this still a thing? This allows rogue to instantly kick people for 5 secs spellock, followed with other over 10seconds of mind numbing control on the target.
Also why can these mongrels sap in combat? Get hit by GP and getting sapped at same time feels so fun.
No, it’s not just chaos bolt. It’s not just warlocks either, it’s their comps.
On the other hand warlocks face comps that are incredibly disruptive and that pretty much escalates the problem of chaos bolt having to hit hard and warlocks needing lot of cc’s to get them off.
Counter question would be, what spells should be unpruned?
Some spells should be left dead, buried and forgotten. Preferably with some deadly curses protecting the tombs in case anyone dares to get approach them.
I know the consensus of this forum is that “pruning is bad”, but the problem will in the end always be, what should be unpruned?
I think a more interesting question would be, what sort of gameplay would people in general prefer? And since that’s a rather large and vague question another one could be added, what sort of strengths and weaknesses should my spec have?
Preferably without diluting the spec’s and make them all seem the same’ish, which has been an problem as well.
Do you know between what abilities rogues have lost access to?
.<
How about you roll a rogue, play assassination and take shadowstep off your bars?
Already got one
Fel Flame, Shadowflame, Conflag gets its root back, Soulfire, Backlash, Nether Ward but as an absorb or magic damage reduction Shield, Howl of Terror but there I’d be okay with it needing a decision between another CC of the likes, instant Shadowfury ffs… Demon and Fel Armor in their original form, Soul Burn should make a comeback and the DPS cooldown can be pruned away. F*ck cooldown based bullsh!t
Adding to the Rogue discussion: What annoys me the most is that Rogue players always forget that their kit USED to be designed around stealth being a strong mechanic and that came with obvious drawbacks, yet Blizzard removed almost all the drawbacks over time, WITHOUT ADJUSTING THEIR RESPECTIVE KIT.
Sap should be 6s at most, not 8. Cheap Shot needs to be redesigned aswell. Everything that would be busted if it didn’t have the restriction on only being usable while stealthed should’ve been adjusted to account for all the changes.
Like they moved 50% slower during stealth, not mount speed they move atm.
They couldnt just build 5 combo and instantly swap before. They had to build the combos from scratch.
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They can do it since cata. It would be great to get back redirect for them that’s for sure
Look how Warlocks design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - A slow caster, with variety of demons to serve, with wast self-fealing capabilities, and wast CC toolkit.
And now what we have?
Slow - Check
variety of demons to serve - check, but nerfed and pruned as hell.
Self-healing - pruned.
CC - pruned.
How Rogues design idea was maintained trough couse of Xpacs - a high risk - high reward damage dealer, with cast CC capabilities, and good mobility, with no self-healing mechanics.
Mobility - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs
CC - was improved significantly over the couse of Xpacs.
high risk - high reward style - now it is a “no risk - high reward” class.
no self-healing mechanics - no self-healing mechanics - now has good self healing tools.
What the hell is this?
While i as warlock lost whole mechanics like metamorphosis, that was given in slightly diffirent form to the Spriest, my healing tools “healthstone was transformed into healing potion, with same restrictions(1 use per combat)” while rogues has recieved a crimson vial - a 30% healing spell on 30 seconds CD. While i lost half of my CC abilities, and that was left baseline was nerfed to the ground like shadowfury is now castable, and fear now breaks from 1 point of damage, rogues CC was left intact or was being improved. My baseline escape spell - demonic circle was made into a talent, while rogues has recieved new talents to improve their current mobility or add new ones.
Yes Destro damage is broken, but what destro would be if chaosbolt will be nerfed? Like in Legion affli was good only because of overpowered self-heals, destro now good only because of chaosbold damage. I would like to rebalance our damage, but only if we as warlocks will recieve a well-thought rework, because right now, my class is nerfed, pruned and just broken. And see how classes as mages/rogues was improved and polished, makes me to quiestion blizzard class design team.
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Making a character that is designed to sit on a target with tons of pressure without crowd control and then complains that they don’t have the same toolkit as one that is balanced around it
Yeah outlaw as well, feral however does a lot of bleed damage which is still physical by bypasses armour.
The point of the thread is how it isn’t balanced at all compared to ~9 other classes ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
At some point Rogue might have been balanced around it, but in no way is Warrior sitting on you more dangerous than Rogue.
It’s not about damage.
It’s about utility.
Currently Rogue utility has no downside. Which is retarded. Stealth should slow you down, so you have to move more carefully and play well, leaving stealth should disallow using stealth-only abilities, so again, you have to consider playing careful and well.
And you shouldn’t have self heal, so you don’t just Vanish whenever you please and heal to full, until the target dies. That’s bad design where one target is directly inferior.
Currently if I play 2s, out of 5 most common teams I meet, 3 of those contains Rogues.
They can use CC to avoid damage, they can use cooldowns to avoid damage, they have DR on 15 sec CD and they can vanish whenever they risk dying and come back whenever they are full HP and vanish off CD again.
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