Currently fury is the only purely physical, armour affected damage spec.
sure, frost DK is archer and blood DK is wizard
fury warrior is wizard I guess too
like wtf, have you ever played this game?
no
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Outlaw? WW? Feral?
MM hunt? Well technically speaking all hunt speccs. Last time I checked hunters most dmg done ability was autoshot. Whats up with that?
Sub is usable in 2s as fire/mage since like a month and basically useless unless youâre like R1 (e.g. like wallrikz playing affli) so basicallyâŚyes? Outlaws been crap since they nerfed azerite and was okay before then. Sub was broken for like 2 weeks and then dogtier.
DK has two dps and a tank. Warriors have 2 dps and a tank. Okay replace âmeleeâ with dps and thatâs what I meant. I have 3 specs to choose from and one of them will always be okay because if it wasnât the entire class is broken and would just be fixed. Warriors have 2, dks have 2, hunters have 1, palas have 1, druids have 1, monks have 1 soâŚyea, anyone thinking rogues wont be good all the time is delusional.
MM and BM yeah, survival does a ton of magic dmg
Thatâs it. There shouldnât be ever a reason to talk about unfair circumstances especially as Rogue when you have 3 speccs backing you up for being viable. While as Windwalker or Ret for example you only have this one specc to be viable if you want to do DPS.
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Rogue utility is infuriating and the fact that they can continue to cast stealth abilities for 3 seconds after they are revealed is just ludicrous.
Tell that to Xaryu and Pikaboo who landed a sap just after their target took damage from a Gpyro.
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Or Whaaz who is more famous as a bug abuser than as a rank1 tournament player.
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Well I mean, how can a class with 3 DPS not be viable at DPS, would just mean all three and therefore the entire class is broken so yeah, generally Iâd say it should be easier not to complain.
Problem in this game is people play specs not classes. Blizzard are just crap at balancing specs and everyone knows this. I tihnk its worse since they seem to have left the âthese specs are good in PvP, these are good in PvEâ situation. Anyway I get that people with single DPS specs would get annoyed but well, its Blizzard - Iâm sure everyone is used to it by now.
But yeah, this thread seems to have turned into âRogues are always goodâ. Well, yeah they are because if they werenât always good, theyâd be horrendous in both PvE and PvP (most likely) and no class is ever entirely crap in both. Like ever and if they are, it isnât for long (note I said class not spec).
In PvE, people just swap classes for their role but you cant do that in PvP without multiclassing. Playing feral isnât the same as playing rdruid so swapping role isnât what people do either and Blizzard seem to not care.
Meh thatâs just my opinion anyway. I couldnât play sub most of this expansion despite Whisperer thinking its a great spec, so I played Assa. If Assa was dogtier and Outlaw was good, Iâd play outlaw.
Only thing that concerns me in this game is, is my class fun and is it viable. Currently I can play assa for raids, outlaw in m+, sub in 2s and assa in 3s. So yea, guess Iâm pretty privileged.
As for the gpie sap problem; seems to be an issue with gpie. It isnât just sap, you can do other incaps like ring of frost to do gpie RoF gpie as well or gpie gouge gpie. The spell just seems a bit broken.
That was a lot of waffling :S
Rogue is the least pruned class in the game after mage.
Coincidence why they actually have an engaging & fun playstyle???
If all the classes were brought on par with rogues, meaning that theyâd have no clear weaknesses but would rather just play on their strenghts (like rogues do), the class balancing would be done.
Specs are supposed to be just that: A specialization WITHIN your class. It doesnât make any sense that when you choose a spec, your warrior suddenly forgets how to spell reflect (baseline), use shield wall etc, or how a shaman forgets how to use healing totems and all the other utility totems that disappeared with Legion.
Believe me if every class was on par with rogue on how fun & utility, the class balance would be fixed relatively well.
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Right now, rogues have the most complete toolkit across all classes.
Rogues baseline have
- Mobility
- Sprints.
- Increased passive speed.
- Gap closers.
- CC
- Stuns.
- Sap.
- Blind.
- Stealth
- Presure damage
- Burst damage
- Heals.
- Anti-melee defences
- Anti-caster defences
- Slows.
- Escape tools.
If Rogue design was made like warlocks as example, we would likely to see vanish, cloack of shadows and crimson vial on same talent row.
Someone in blizzard was too over enthusiastic about rogues toolkit.
I donât know what about warriors, but i as warlock has lost over 15+ spells in the last 2 xpacs. And how many spells did rogues lost? How many mechanics was pruned from them?
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Continuing on, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot and Sap in the same row
Evasion, Feint and Sprint in the same row
Imagine your entire baseline toolkit just put into the talent tree, and in addition to that many many little but impactful mechanics just removed like Backlash etcâŚ
And the only thing for me is the class being fun and having utility and a lot of agency in terms of constant decision making in order to outplay others. This has been removed for almost all other specs or extremely dumbed down. It absolutely doesnât need to be viable in that sense, as long as I still can have the upper hand with my extended experience over others, Iâd take that any day. Nowadays it doesnât matter that Iâve got over 700 days played on destro since 2008, any other player that rolls the spec and has a decent understanding on how to pilot a caster class in general absolutely has a chance to wreck me. Moreso than pre WoD or even WoD itself.
People are infuriated by destro warlocks right now, yet they absolutely have no idea how ridiculous our spec was in better times. Trust us when we say it is even more infuriating for us, since there is no 2 specs that are more predictable than destro and fire mage. Nothingâs more obvious than a red glowing aura and a big fat infernal crashing down and the cast bar of one single ability.
Oh and how I cackle internally every time Shadowfury and Mortal Coil get dropped in a post against destro⌠oh boy. You all know that SF used to be BASELINE INSTANT CAST 4s STUN ON A 20s COOLDOWN, RIGHT? The 1.5s cast time and 1 min CD are such a slap in the faceâŚ
You know⌠back in the day when CB hit for 130-200k in MoP⌠Incinerate and Conflag ALSO hit for 90-120kâŚ
Now CB hits for 50-60k unbuffed, up to 150k and above if stacked REALLY high, all the while incinerate hits between 5-8k, Conflag for 12-15k if at all⌠Yeah. Itâs a complete dumbster fire.
And lastly, the reason WHY people are even more upset specifically at Rogues is because that class absolutely doesnât have to sacrificy ANYTHING in order to be better in another thing. They have tons of utility, tons of damage AND tons of CC. What other class has this much stacked at the same time, without the need to sacrifice at least one big part of their kit through talents?
https://gyazo.com/03ea9bd1fdace1b68e0ce1b3fbf4473f
These three are LOCKED IN at all times. And you only switch DA around for Nether Ward against specific combs ONLY in arena, since for everything else it is all around just best to have DA, since for openworld PvP, BGs etc melees are your biggest weakness and you donât need NW.
All in all, Blizzard should unprune and bring everyone else back to Rogue standards. It really, really gives you a strange and unique kind of pure hatred deep inside your soul every time you hear a DH npc give you the line "I have sacrificed EEEVRYYTHIING, what have YOU given?
Especially as a warlockâŚ
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You forgot blanket silence. And poisons that apply automatically have 2 much utility build in them. 30% longer casting speeds, 25-30% less healing received and perma snare.
Funny even though they got instant gapcloser without GCD and increased movement speed they need a ranged slow from poisoned knife aswell⌠which is mindbogling
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Oh right, I almost forgot. Rogues even managed to dodge (huehue) the whole GCD debacle⌠they are almost unaffected by that aswell.
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Yes, exactly!!!
They have the largest arsenal of baseline utility.
Warriors baseline has:
Intimidating Shout
Leap
Die by the sword (3min cd) Three entire minutes!!!
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I like how rogues stopped answering and defending their class when warlocks got into the discussion⌠Warlocks, and many other classes, have lost half of their spellbooks in utilities. Rogues remained unaffected of the heavy pruning and they have the highest representation in pvp leaderboards⌠Together with resto druids. Check their spellbook for example and compare it to priests⌠Abyssmal gapâŚ
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According to xunamate warlocks have the highest representation of all the dps specâs. Higher than assassination rogues. They are however bested by holy paladins and rdruids.
Poor poor warlocks. Being behind two healer specâs in representation. Must be tough.
yeah must be rough being a warlock always having 1-2 viable-t1 specs since TBC and being top of the pve ladder simultaneously since the dawn of man
When the hell do you people realize that numbers are not the main fun factor?
My damage output is result of painfuly boring and idiotic ramp up preparation?
Do you think that this is fun? It is not!
I would rather do less damage, but have more pleasant damage dealing mechanics, and get rid off puppeteer design that doesnât work at all.
Tell me have any of your spells has huge delays like this?
And all my demons has simmilar delays.
Or spells that just doesnât work in some areas of the game?
Because of people whom scream that warlocks are fine because they do more damage then i, my class are ruined and cripled by freaking broken class design.