I have one question about the body of the prince Arthas. Where is his body rest? Is his body just dissapear? Who is take him? Is there any information about this? In my opinion he should have grave as a Prince of Lordaeron.
Do you have a specific reason for this? I mean, it’s not like he did a great deal for Lordaeron, except wiping the kingdom out.
Well, he wiped kingdom as a lich king or death knight, but he serve well as a prince and he is from royal family.
We have no idea where Arthas may be interred. The fate of his corpse following his defeat is unknown. Frost spec Death Knights actually see his spirit back in Legion, if I recall. There he whispers certain things to the Death Knight that, in retrospect, may be referring to N’Zoth (though at the time the player was led to believe he was talking about Bolvar).
I imagine in-lore that everyone would want to keep Arthas’ final fate (he might have been cremated for all we know) or his resting place a secret. After all, there are still myriad undead and cultists who resist Bolvar’s control. Mad fanatics, those crazed with vengeance… Any number of souls who might want to go and literally dig him up and do who knows what with his body. Best he remain hidden, both for the sake of the man he was and the world at large.
There was a time where I would have assumed they simply burned it to ashes and scattered them in the seas to make absolutely sure he could never, ever be resurrected by anyone ever again.
After Derek, that method no longer seems safe.
Not burning and scatering the ashes of a necromantic entity of such power would be so dumb it would make peons look sophisticated.
Before anyone mentions it, No, the tomb in Stormwind is not Arthas’ grave.
Imho either a) Bolvar has the corpse or b) The Ebon Blade possess it. The body of the former LK is a weapon in itself and if he were to somehow be brought back, the new entity could be a threat to even Bolvar. To that end, both had access to Arthas’ corpse at the end of ICC and recognise the danger of just leaving massive weapons around.
He was into necromacy stuff, so I guess they burned him or that seems like the most reasonable and logical choice to me.
Actually he did everything he could for Lordaeron. The thing is he couldn’t have won, it was simply impossible to stop the plague, he tried his best but ended up doing lot of bad things because of it. He did not suceed because it was impossible for him to succeed but at least he did something and from his perspective he did not really have a choice what to do, before he become Death knight that is.
After becoming DK he was basically a puppet to Dreadlords, he was basically Darth Vader of Warcraft universe, tried to stop something innevitable and in process became evil and served as a puppet to his former enemy destroying everything he once stood for. I wouldn’t blame him much and as for him becoming LK later, Arthas wasn’t the Lich king, just part of him.
I don’t really think Bolvar cared what happens to his body too much, it is my personal opinion but I think for the plot’s Blizzard and maybe even heroes of Azeroth wouldn’t risk leaving Arthas to someone who can raise dead especially since its pretty possible Bolvar will turn evil due to Yogg theme playing when he takes the mask on and I don’t think Blizzard would want us fighitng Arthas again, though it could be good for marketing I think this would be bit overboard.
It’s quite possible that Ebon blade sealed this again but Im not sure if Tyrion and other heroes would trust them with that but its possible
Yeah thats why I think they burned it but it doesn’t have to be the case.
Also another opinion to consider, its possible Blizzard did not actually think of that at all or wants it left as mystery.
Nope, that is your suggestion and not necessarily true. When Arthas returned, the Kingdom was still standing, and his father was still the king. Sure, it was probably struggling but it was Arthas who, in the end, made the destruction of it final.
Ye -really- could’ve done things differently. He was rash and didn’t think his actions through. He even branded Uther the Lightbringer as a traiter because of the fact that he only saw the world in black and white. Stratholme and the Northrend campaign are the two main examples of how Arthas failed to act in a reasonable matter.
So we are going to build a statue of that guy?
You know, the thing is, it’s not that he didn’t care about his father’s kingdom, it’s about the fact that he was responsible for its downfall. You can blame the fact that he was unreasonable and unwilling to see the other side of the story. But you cannot only blame the Burning Legion or the Lich King for how it turned out - Arthas himself played a tremendous part in it himself.
There are countless examples of people in history who meant well, but still made a mess.
He did, which is what the Dreadlords actually wanted in reality that is absolutely true. However if you look at it, in the Warcraft campaing, the plague is travelling faster than Arthas. The source of the plague wasn’t really known at first and it struck by surprise with basically nobody knowing about it, so the plague already had a huge headstart and it is very difficult fighting plague, it is a disease you can’t physically kill it and you don’t know where it is coming from because nobody could have known the scale, especially since the plague started already before Arthas really got to do anything.¨
Another thing is the whole thing was an elaborate plan, it was devised and executed by Dreadlords, who are masters in destroying whole kingdoms through trickery and they definetly had a time to get ready for anything, there was no way people of Lordaeron knew what was going on in the Twisting Nether and they carried the plan out using secret cult that had infiltrated the whole kingdom. Basically the plan was set into motion long before Arthas learned of it.
That is true but you have to consider his perspective, of course he didn’t necessarily DO the best things, but he did try to do what he thought would be the best, I am not trying to argue for him being competent in what he was trying to do, and if I made my argument sound like that I apologize, more so what I meant was he was trying to solve the problem the best he could so he wasn’t really a bad guy by any means.
Stratholme was probably already doomed because the grain infested the city and I doubt quarantine would help too much because Mal’ganis had personally involved in this himself, so he could have easily continued to spread plague despite the quarantine. Killing civilians is not justified thing to do but arguably they were already dead, Arthas did not do the right thing but utimately Stratholme lead him to meet Mal’ganis and learn who is behind the plague.
I think important thing to consider here overall is his perspective. We were quite literaly looking at Warcraft III. from above and we ultimately had a story, Arthas had no such thing, he was there at the moment, he had no way of knowing what exactly will happen or even could happen.
Going to Northrend was also a bad idea but he only knew of one Dreadlord and he wanted to stop the plague, it wasn’t really good idea but it wasn’t safe to let Mal’ganis go either. What he did with the ships and to the mercenaries was outright disgusting and I will not try to justify that but ultimately during this campaing the frustration from all that was happening and let’s be honest it was way bigger than him so it must have been immense psychical pressure on him
Not saying that, please do not assume. What I am trying to say is he wasn’t evil man on his own. It was only when he got under influence of others that he turned evil.
Thas absolutely true but what I am trying to say is not that he was justified in what he did or that he wasn’t responsible for the evil things he did but he was fighting against something way bigger than he was and he was young while doing so too. Of course under such a pressure someone with responsibility for his kingdom, especially when he is young is gonna do rash and unreasonable decisions. I am not saying that justfies anything just that he was acting in what he thought was the best interest of his kingdom and he was often stupid but I don’t think he was outright evil just stupid, but there is many young and stupid people me included and I don’t think we are getting denied our graves for being such. Of course he did way more stupid things than any person can do but that is also because he did way bigger odds against him, he was literaly fighing a threat that was elaborately planned many years prior and executed precisely.
Another thing I need to adress closer is this.
He did of course however I will point out to something you said earlier.
What you are saying here is that even despite what he did at Stratholme and Northrend, Lordaeron could have been saved. But the thing is only thing he did after that was murdering his father, but that was the last thing he did and he was already under the influence of Frostmourne.
What this means is that rather than a tremendous part he did the final part and he only did it after being corrupted however as you said yourself the kingdom still wasn’t doomed despite the things he did earlier, so only his final act was what destroyed Lordaeron but arguably that means his previous mistakes weren’t that bad since kingdom could have been saved before that point.
So basically he is responsible for destroying the kingdom but it was online after he was corrupted and it was by his one action so I wouldn’t say he played that large part in it until this point.
Another thing you can say is taking Frostmourne was his fault, fine but if you look at this was by Mal’ganis’ design, he got lured there which is stupid but still not inherently evil.
Overall Arthas did many things wrong but I’d attribute most of them prior to his death to his stupidity not to being evil. Of course that doesn’t mean they should build him statues as you say and he did lot of bad things as DK Im just trying to say that he was ultimately like rest of Lordaeron in a way a victim of the Scourge too.
I agree that the Plague was very hard to stop, but I cannot concede that the future was already determined. There were a lot of options that could have been considered, but Arthas’ sacking of Lordaeron ruled all of them out.
That doesn’t excuse Arthas of his own behaviour and actions. He wasn’t being mind-controlled until he took Frostmourne, and he did some morally ambiguous things way before that already.
So, because he had good intentions, we should give him a grave in Lordaeron? I find that hard to accept, especially if you consider that “good intentions” are very relative. Arthas had good intentions from his PoV, but so did Sargeras and Garrosh. I mean, Sargeras simply wanted to protect the universe from the Void. Yrel also had good intentions, but her actions were also overshadowed by her rash acting and unreasonable attitude.
No, Arthas’ perspective is irrelevant. The question is whether we should give Arthas a grave in a kingdom he destroyed. And it’s completely irrelevant of how Arthas thought about his own actions, what is relevant is how he is perceived in Azeroth.
Nope, you don’t, but then again, i assume you didn’t burn down your hometown and killed everyone in it, even if the innocents who tried to flee.
It’s not only about consequentialist thought there, though. It’s also about your attitude, about being a “good person”, so to speak. Arthas wasn’t. He overruled the people who advised him and knew better. He denied his men to return to Lordaeron because he burned down their ships. He was willing to sacrifice his friend’s life for a sword he thought would end the Plague. That doesn’t speak well about him at all, and it shows he is unwilling to see reason.
Really, what we’re looking for here are reasons why the citizens of Azeroth would want Arthas’ body to be buried in Lordaeron, after he destroyed his kingdom and killed thousands after that.
He didn’t. Even before he became a Death Knight, he wasted good forces in Northrend, leading to their deaths and wiped out all of Stratholme in lack of thinking about a better plan. When he took the mantle of king he was already part of the scourge. Play Warcraft 3 again. He was a spoiled, royal di.ckhead the minute a bigger challenge than just some Orcs appeared on the screen.
Frostmourne took his soul. But it wasn’t really mind control. Morally he was already gone away, then he became Lich King on his own without Ner’zhul and the rest is history.
Jaina has his body and cast frost spells on it. I think it was confirmed at some blizzcon q & a
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but if that is true, then she is utterly insane and needs removing from power and preferably incarcerated somewhere where she cannot do anything as batguano insane ever again.
I mean that is crazy. That’s like taking ‘Psycho-Ex’ to the next level, a level so creepy that even Hannibal Lecter would go “Man, you’re twisted”. That is like, those people who have a dead pet stuffed and mounted? That is doing it with a person, but not even by Taxidermy, by putting them in the Freezer! I’m trying to think of anything creepier, even funerary cannibalism is more sane than that…
Mother of…Wow, just wow…That’s next tier ‘wrongness’
I really hope that ain’t true, I’d be interested in seeing the source. Not because I’m calling you a liar, not at all! But I want to see how Blizzard would try to justify such a thing :D.
To be honest, I think Arthas never got a grave… He got his death with his Father’s absolution(though I’m not sure anyone else, even ‘the heroes’ saw that, I think that was just Arthas in his dying moments seeing it. I reckon Bolvar nailed it. “The World must never know. Tell them only that the Lich King is dead…and Bolvar Fordragon died with him.”
That’s it, roll the curtains, turn on the lights. End of movie. Bolvar nailed it.
What good would giving Arthas a grave do? Who is it going to benefit? The people of Lordaeron? 99% of them are Forsaken who were killed and broken to his will, you think they -want- a memorial? The Humans of Stormwind? WHat, the guy killed a beloved Regent, and a hecktonne of Lordaeron and Stormwind soldiers, and not only was a regicide, but a -patricide- The Quel’dorei/Sin’dorei/Ren’dorei? The guy wiped out 90% of their race and caused a monstrous division that ruined what unity was left. The Dwarves? He tried to kill his best mate, a relative of their -King-.
I mean who is there, who remains, who -wants- to remember Arthas? Even his own -Sister- won’t use the family surname because of the (rightful) hate that it instils.
Only one group of people would want to see a grave or memorial to Arthas.
Neo-Scourge Cultists. That’s it.
It would become a pilgrimage site to those who want to echo his ways. Now…why the heck would anyone encourage that?
Yeah does not really matter, what an young charming prince did prior, because he was the sole reason Lordaeron fell and its people becoming mindless zombies for Lich King and after being cursed and forsaken by the others.
So I doubt he deserves a grave.
Also good intentions = good deeds.
That would explain alot of Jainas character swings.
Sorry, but she’s insane only for that reason?
Wench is utterly mad from the point of Theramore!
There’s a grave in Stormwind marked with a Lordaeron “L” added in Cataclysm. People used to speculate he’s burried there.
Screenshot just taken in-game. Coords are 48 22 in Stormwind City.
But Derek wasn’t burned into ashes.
You mean like how leaving a powerful relic that can control the seas and waters of Azeroth unguarded for anyone to steal would also be stupid? Oh wait…
Seems people of Azeroth are pretty stupid, so I bet that arthas’ corpse wasn’t burned and isn’t even guarded.
“Then he [Derek] saw a glow deep within the dragon’s maw. It rushed forward, expanding as it came, and suddenly the world burst around him. He did not even have time to scream before the flames consumed him, and his body crumbled as it fell, burned to mere ash.”
- Tides of Darkness, page 314.
Sheesh, you’re right! It’s singular, not plural. Makes aaall the difference!