“In a similar fashion”, right, because having fun scaring prisoners is identical to brainwashing or just straight up melting prisoners with Blight.
Let me give you a few more straws to grasp at Zarao.
Man I love the way you analyze things, indeed from a Grunts perspective it comes down to their personal experience with the enemy and more often than not thats how hatreds are born and maintained. That Tauren who made that Humans life hell or killed his battalion, will be full of hate even if Anduin and Baine get married etc etc.
But Daelinna doesnt get it man…
Sylvannas is capitalising on that sentiment of the people, while Anduin is mobilising just cause “he has to retalliate” .
But his soldiers are also full of hate, just look at Tyrande, Genn and all the nelfs on forums and Daelinna… they wont take an argument, they thirst for blood.
And while they all act the way Sylvannas wants them to, then they make a thread about how stupid she is lol. Good luck
“Having fun scaring prisoners” seems like a weak apologetic argument for forced labour and what essentially could be considered torture.
Let alone that making it seem as if Dereks case was the widespread practice seems like a stretch rather easy to debunk.
But won’t go there. Point being that the perception regarding war shifts depending on the one witnessing such. And obviously, for most average soldiers, taking a sample of the Horde prisoners and seeing the treatment they are having, might tilt their perception regarding what sort of treatment the Alliance ones deserve in turn.
Not to the point it makes Dereks case excusable, but to the point they can be more willing to turn a blind eye to the necessary evil acts they find along the way.
The prisoner example was but one case. There are plenty more that could be highlighted in order to show how the perception soldiers have regarding this war (and the opinion the have about the Alliance), could shift to the point they see the continuation of the conflict as the valid route in this scenario.
There is no point revolting for the “nasty”, if you think that the Alliance doesn’t have such qualms regarding your side.
You don’t need to have an ultimate plan about “world domination” or “dark powers”, to have a good chunk of the Horde soldiers following through with the conflict (even if they do bad stuff), while fuelled simply by spite and hate.
1 Like
“Derek is not the widespread practice”, but three Horde prisoners being treated badly in a city that was not even affiliated with the Alliance at that time is the widespread method that the Alliance employs with their prisoners.
You’re right though. The hatred of the Horde common soldiers is justified. Those 10 miners in Silithus did NOT deserve to be butchered like pigs.
Oh yeah, much like those “10 night elves” in Teldrassil…
This is rather pointless. The argument is pretty simple: the Horde soldiers can or will follow Sylvanas for as long as they think that she has their interests in mind, or goals they can tag along with. And will feel vindicated in doing such for as long as they remain with a skewed and biased point of view regarding the Alliance.
With said negative portrait prevailing for as long as they feel like the Alliance isn’t showing the opposite (something hard to do during war times).
And all the above doesn’t mean that they are right in doing so, or have the complete picture of the situation at hand.
That’s all.
That sounds more like Greedy bunch who warship animals rather then spiritual Empire. Stand aside troll, your Holy Empire offends me!
True, might be. Its just more accurate to tell the truth of his words from a leader of a war campaign, then to tell how many support Sylvanas judged by one racial leader.
Sure, but if thats what Devs want us to believe and push for it would feel nonsensical, as I tried to give just couple of reasons to why.
It is confirmed. She was sending assassins after Saurfang and Thrall. Imprisoned Baine and almost executed him.
Yeah also if a regular Grunt would have no such informarion why would she choose a supposedly lying wench over supposedly lying racial hero? And Thrall who delivered them new home. Oh yeah, because he left them and he has lost all respect among orcs.
It’s not my fault if you contradicted yourself. If Derek is not widespread prisoners method (hence why it wouldn’t scandalize a Horde soldier), then neither are those prisoners in Boralus.
If by “10 night elf civilians” you mean 1000, sure.
Same as Anduin declaring they are winning (or were at least).
Except, you know, the fact that both Nathanos and Shaw agree with me, Nathanos being Sylvanas’ second-in-command. They were winning soundly, it’s not a lie.
It’s not that hard to assume that the majority of the soldiers would or are backing up Sylvanas, when you keep getting peeks at stuff like orcs and Tauren moving in to chain Baine, Forsaken soldiers training under Orgrimmar, Orc hunters spitting on Saurfangs Honour, and blood elves willing to kill both Jaina and those former Horde leaders willing to back her up.
It’s not far fetched to assume that Sylvanas has a good chunk of the population supporting her, when whatever little we see regarding the Horde army modus, has them going full savage in cases like Brennadam (mirroring Sylvanas mindset regarding the Alliance).
This is BfA. Nonsensical is at this point part of the expansions dominant features.
There are ways in which the army would realistically support Sylvanas tho (as I already pointed out to Arctur).
Not that they are doing an overall good job with it and the Hordes general portrayal…but still.
1 Like
There are no ways, you even contradicted yourself when “brilliantly” explaining that.
Source confirmation? Only reference is on Safe Haven where Saurfang says “I followed them”
Sending assasins after Saurfang yes. But after Thrall? Why the fk would she? Another reason to imply Saurfang actually lied
Saurfang was second in command in Blackhands butcher Horde and also was publicly lying with Nathanos to trick Alliance spies. He is no stranger to deception… so unless we get a second source citing it or confirming it from Sylvannas side, I aint buying it
1 Like
I didn’t mention his case as one that had the Horde assuming how spread it was, I said:
Let alone that making it seem as if Dereks case was the widespread practice seems like a stretch rather easy to debunk.
So if Derek is not enough, then neither are those prisoners in Boralus. I’ll tell you the same thing I tell everyone else. Thank you for further proving my point, but I didn’t need you.
That bit was referencing your post:
Brainwashing stood out as an oddity even amongst Forsaken characters like Voss.
And about the rest, you can reaffirm yourself in the most biased and onesided point of view regarding the factional conflict.
If it helps you understand it better, that’s the same mindset that certain Horde soldiers can have to excuse why they hate the Alliance.
Being at the other end, or being the target of any despicable act, tends to make someone get a hold on a position and opinion regarding anybody. And not a positive one.
If you don’t like Sylvanas meddling with Xalatath, maybe you should stop and wonder if the Zandalari dislike being forced to battle Umbrics Void aberrations.
If you don’t like Forsaken casually taking a big chunk of the civilian population, you are probably getting a pretty good peek at how goblins might feel about having a raging Molten giant decimating their archaeologists or being bombed out of the see while simply being some innocent bystanders.
Etc.
Scale matter in the greater scheme of things. For an average soldier, the view is narrowed to a smaller scale.
1 Like
Thats not theme of the sitation man. Dont you see? Power of friendship vs ambitious leader whod not spot for anything to get what she wants.
I honestly think thats some mental gymnastics there that Saurfang came up with assassin scenario to lie? For what end? Get all of them togather and then in seige of Stormwind to find out that Saurfang was all along on Sylvanas’ side and Nathanos telling us to play along made sense? It was Saurfangs and Sylvanas grand plan. All them CGI cinematics were done to decieve players…
That’s cool, but the Horde soldiers are still evil for following a leader who wants to brainwash every living she can get her hands on.
That would be the case…
If they knew that and still followed him willingly.
And most importantly, if that was actually what the leader aimed at here.
Otherwise…well. Stormwind followed a black dragon for many years, and the Twilight Hammer leader for many years more.
And I wouldn’t call them “evil”. Would you?
Anyway, all this “evil” talk seems rather tangent to the issue at hand about whether why or how is it possible for Horde soldiers to follow Sylvanas in this war.
With the difference being that Onyxia kept her true identity hidden, whereas Sylvanas literally says in public that her only different with the Lich King lies not in her methods, but in her alleged affiliations.
Saurfang doesn’t have to be on Sylvanas’ side to lead the assassins to Thrall, he could just as well have lied about it to make Thrall join forces with him against her.
Mental gymnastics, maybe, but how much more idiotic is Sylvanas sending two clearly incompetent rogues after someone like Thrall when half a dozen dark rangers weren’t able to kill Saurfang?
Just as moronic as having her champions “play along” in Baine’s rescue if she really wanted him executed.
Unless, it was Nathanos acting against her wishes and secretly siding with the rebels, but I don’t know… would be a quite risky move on his part and why should he do it in the first place?
2 Likes
Just as moronic as trusting a dreadlord or turning your back on a free-willed gilnean supremacist wielding a shotgun. She was never intelligent.
yea…no. Trusting a dreadlord may be stupid, allowing the rescue of someone you want to execute would be outright shizophrenic.
I want my 4D chess story!
2 Likes