It is just a ridiculous statement M+ is made in mind for streaming and not for the fun for the players. M+ is made in mind with keeping dungeons replayable instead of just a 1 time during leveling in the story.
Lolwut.
If people couldnât talk to the streamer at all, pretty much nobody would watch streamers.
Just look at tbc. There is living proof. raiding attendance is 5x higher. Yes i know mythic + doesnt exist. But i think this is a problem in itself too.
It is also 5x easier.
Yes its alot easier. I never talked about difficulty. I donât think the appeal of a raid comes in its difficulty. Mythic raid is only for 1% of the playerbase and maybe im stretching it.
I do think that easy cruising raids are good content. In fact, having an easy raid allows for horizontal competition and strategy to manifest such as speedrunning and parsing. Who cares about parsing normal or heroic when there is mythic anyways.
Normal raid is also 5x easier than mythic, but this barely has any attendance either. The whole raiding system is flawed. What i would do is make mythic an optional difficulty that doesnt reward better loot. Similar to how +25 keystones are.
Who cares about parsing. We care about killing bosses. But the 99% which is not raiding mythic cares about normal and heroic.
nope. Look at the statistics on warcraftlogs. The amount of people that do normal and heroic is miserable. They are just extremely unrewarding difficulties. People that can do heroic can just do M+ and never set foot after they have completed their 4set.
The raiding scene would be so much more populated if heroic gave BIS loot and mythic only gave cosmetics titles and served world first purpose. Similar to how a +25 key would be. Imagine if you had to do +25s for BIS loot.
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it is miserable since it is way too hard. My guild finished last week normal and is continueing on heroic this week. The last 2 raids in SL took forever to finish too. Sylv heroic was done after 7 months progressing. So i for example, and some others in my guild too are just not raiding anymore. It is not worth it. It ends up too frustrating.
Yes it is way too hard overall. The amount of normal and heroic guilds is very small too. Struggling to do a difficulty that rewards so much mediocre loot is frustrating.
As I said before. A difficulty similar to heroic should reward BIS loot. There could also be a story difficulty like LFR and mythic for the people that want to push themselves, but rewarding the same loot as heroic.
Another reason why TBC raiding is interesting and successful is that previous raids are great catchup and still have some BIS loot. In retail there are some BIS things like sylvanas trinket and dagger still, but its so frustrating to go into mythic sylvanas to do that. BIS gear should be available for more people, and i guarantee pugs for previous tiers would happen too for BIS gear.
I mean; i am totally fine there is a difficulty where i am just not good enough for. Let people who can do mythic enjoy mythic. I think that is awesome.
I have no opinion about loot. I never cared about loot in raids anyway. It was always about beating the boss.
Current end game raid with 4 raid difficulty levels have lower participation then their single difficulty tbc raid just saying. Just becouse you increase participation by dumbing down raiding doesnt mean you will achieve higher participation. As you get more people into raiding you will also lose lot of peopel what alredy raided as desire to do raid with such structured raid desing simply goes down. Acessible raiding is acessible yes but definitly isnt interesting or fun. So in long run you just killing off your raid audience.
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I do respect the fact that you are raiding for the experience but there is very few of us left! I raid both for the experience and the loot, but the experience isnât good enough so i stopped raiding in retail and I only do m+ and pvp.
Thatâs why Iâm also raiding in tbc. Itâs an amazing social experience. The raids are good and coherent. Some bosses are easy and some are hard which is a nice mix. (Sunwell is also gonna be extremely hard. I heard it compares to modern day retail mythic on Mâuru).
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This 100%. I understand why they thought its a good idea initially, but itâs time to change raiding i think.
âAsmongold has spoken . Azeroth is doomed. You will accept, or you will die! We must obey Asmongold ! None can overcome his might!â
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I just think normal and heroic difficulty need to go back to lets say nighthold difficulty and a lot will be fixed 
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I think that will fix some, but not that much. I donât think the only reason people donât raid very much is because normal or heroic is hard. I personally think they are easy, but just unrewarding. Also having 4 difficulties makes the raid unappealing in itself. I think most share this opinion.
Why is it unappealing? I think it has just become way too hard over the years. The amount and time of progress needed now on normal and heroic bosses is insane. I really do not think 50-80 wipes on even early bosses on those difficulties by group with a reasonable ilvl should be the case.
Raiding in itself is appealing when you can choose the difficulty. 4 difficulties sort of keep it appealing for everyone. But it is not fun when you are used to do fast normal and then a reasonable progress on heroic, and then it becomes close to too hard to even being able to do heroic.
Imo the 4 difficulties are more important than ever to keep raiding alive since at least we heroic raiders still have normal available.
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no its not, m+ just gives clown rewards, if u want real rewards atm as it is NOW. u gotta be a mythic raider and do CE rather quick. so now tell me why is there so few mythic raiders when the best gear is from there. You are full of BS
There is few mythic raiders cause the raid is ridiculously hard for no reason. Itâs fun for a very small amount of people that way, and thats why theres such a small amount of people doing it. This is coming from a multi CE and realm first raider. I despise the raidâs difficulty
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I would never use schedueling in a game, ever, if thats thats the main point of the game, il quit, nothing that important should last 1 hour or something like that to get ppl, then 5 hours to do it in pugs, or in a guild where you have to be there at X day/hour, thats so stupid in our day, you have to be unemployed or have nothing else going for you in life to raid.
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