They are shutting down 22 realms due to lack of players. Hardly what I would call success.
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post edited
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At release it was a massiv success. Classic in general was. The thing with classic is that it is ultimetly a solved game. Not mutch endgame content to grind if you like only a specific class or anything^^
TO the main subject: âLess raids are getting clearedâ
Well yes yeah obviously isnt it? Less people play the Game=Less people Raid. I also donât believe that raid difficulty has ANYTHING to do with it. Itâs more the stuff you have to do to be allowed to raid. Once your Max lvl you can: Farm renown, spend around 100k for legendarys depending on your server, farm soul ash/cinder/cosmic flux, farm reputation for the High conduits,farm the gear from M+ or if your masochistic LFR to get decent Ilvl.
The wall of things you have to do just to play a new character/the game is attrocious.
And then we come to the thing with asmongold:
Guy comes back after neglecting WoW for months and trys with No Addons, no communication, no decent gear to randome pug a Normal Raid on the day of its release and then complains that they are not making progress fast enough. Like wtf? Sorry that the Raids now a days incline more then âDonât stand in fire.â
What if they added a new raid difficulty that was just for RWF that had no connection to the other difficulties. With the only rewards being bragging rights, achives, cosmetics and perhaps mount, pets and the like?
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Raids are more time consuming.
I personaly donât like, having to play at a specific time, doing a specific thing. That does so i donât want to part of a raid team
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I agree. Wow needs more casual content outside of going to old dead zones from previous expansions and outside of doing world quests for anima. Itâs a MMO, but the Devs think that itâs a Moba esport, or they try to force it on the game.
I couldnât care less about RWF, and I also think itâs weird that the raid has 4 difficulties. Just make it 3 â LFR, Normal Mode, and Hard Mode.
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Asmongold the sensation seeker sure has you fooled then 
RWF exists for a reason, you just havenât figured that out yet.
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Now days it feels kinda sad and strange when asking my fellow raiders if we can sit down for 5-10 min and make a actual plan for how to do a certain Mythic raid boss. Where do we position and how do we handle the phases or something similar they all get bored and just want to run in and start wiping untill we learn.
Maybe im just to old and remember old glory days wrong. But i want to remember guilds and raiders would talk much more in the raid or outside the raid on how to deal with a boss bouncing ideas back and forth. Now days when you ask or suggest something it can be damn near impossible to get heard. Many teams just look at top teams guide and follow it blindly having no clue of what is really happening. Sure raiding should be fun.
I generaly just always thought the step from Heroic to Mythic raiding has been to big.
Most start art normal raiding and then progress to Heroic raiding and lastly go into Mythic raids with the same mindset that if we grind enough we willk eventually kill the bosses not really realising how huge step up it really is.
Maybe a idea would just be to scrap Mythic raids and make them as dungeon M+ system.
Kill x ammount of bosses at +15 Heroic raid to get best item level vault rewards. Then the really pro players can do the +30 raids without making a mess for the more casual player base. At the same time raid guilds could push them self in smaller steps to try and improve and get higher + levels of boss kills.
Maybe that would be boring but i can see the benefit of having a raid scale in small steps as a better choice and it could also allow more people to maybe find a suitable level of raiding in the difficulty they would seems fun and rewarding if lucky. To spice it up each +5 or 10 levels could add a mechanic that is not totally breaking the fight but more a test and a way to spice it up some so you get the feeling of passing a big goal when getting that first +5 raid boss kill. 
Have a great day all.
Ps BlizzardâŚWhy did you make it impossible for me to enter the raids i used to do when they were current? In what way would it break the game to let me go into MC,BWL, AQ 20 and so on with my vanilla priest that is now level 25 after the downscaling? You have set the raid minimum level to 30. You made it impossible after 15-17 years to just go in together with higher level friends. I used to have it as a small social thing where we went to old dungeons or raids and i used my priest as a tour guide telling them stories of how it was and how raiding felt like back then having 40 man and all that was need to raid or what we thought was needed maybe. Stories about DKP and so on. I promise i have attuned myself to them like 16-17 years ago. So please revert it and make level 25 players enter the old raids. Ds
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You are talking alot about other people
Why do you hide your information there?
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But you are.
Just because you are behind a keyboard the social rules still apply.
You do not go to someone in real life and tell him exactly what you find wrong (do you )unless he is your friend or close relative.
We are all mostly strangers here with different opinions and ideas and how things should be and different age which does not show anywhere.If you want respect you need to give it as well.
I love to watch Asmongold 
´´mythic tuning has gotten way the heck out of control bc blizz has tried to keep pace with the wf guilds. just accept those guilds are on steroids and you canât challenge them without completely hecking your raid up. if rwf lasts more than like 8 days alarms should be going off´´
This is from a full time WoW streamer by the way, who does M+ MDI.
When full time WoW streamers who help CAST the raid to world first complain about it⌠Like do I even need to go on?
Blizzard had to massively nerf everything on mythic⌠This is just the latest change, with nerfs to almost half of the mythic raid bosses. Too bad it is too late. Ruined the last raid tier of an expansion. Ruined countless WoW guilds.
The only thing I will say is that maybe it was good this raid was so terribly tuned. Because hopefully it will teach Blizzard the error of their ways.
Well, I disagree with Asmongold on this one, which happens rarely tbh.
I see the point, I donât fully disagree. But I think that Raids SHOULD be hard, there LFR for people who want a really easy Raid.
It should take some time to clear, at release it is totally okay if you donât clear it on the first or second day imo.
It should definitely be doable with PUGs, especially on normal or heroic, but it takes some time for people to figure everything out and get good enough gear ofc.
Pugs now will be more likely to clear the raid than Pugs on release day, thats normal.
Especially heroic and mythic SHOULD be hard, thats the whole idea of it.
These things were created, because WoW at some point catered heavily to casuals, this was done to give players a challenge.
What I do think is problematic however, is the use of Addons. Especially WeakAuras and stuff like DBM. This created a playing field, where it has gotten very hard to design Raids accordingly. It also created a situation, where it is necessary to use these Addons.
The whole Addon situation sucks especially hard for casuals I guess. I can imagine that a lot of casual players donât even go in Raids, because they do not have the Addons and/or would get instantly flamed or kicked for not having them.
The second thing is the WoW community, which is really really toxic.
If you donât have much experience, or are a bad player, youâll go into every group with anxiety. You might also get kicked after the 1. or 2. wipe.
So I think there is a lot more to it than just difficulty. And I am fine with difficult content, they should not change that.
They should also incentivize raiding more though. Due to being able to transform M+ pieces and stuff to Tier Set gear, the incentive for raiding is still not that high.
PvE should be a combination of M+ and Raiding, there should be different stuff to get in each of them. Blizz should stop designing everything around the idea that every type of player should have access to everything.
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seen some ppl suggest that sepulcher was hard bc there wasn't much power creep this tier. honestly don't think that mattered. we weren't wiping bc of missed dps or healing checks. it was all the mechanics that oneshot the raid if you failed them. more power doesn't fix that
â jb (@jdotb) June 18, 2022
JdotB not letting Mythic RWF raiders getting away with the idea that the only reason this tier was so difficult was lack of powercreep. The nerfs make it obvious that even with a 20 % DPS / HPS increase by now, it would make very little difference.
RWF raiders of course disagreeing.
Scripe also now blaming split-runs for increased mythic raid difficulty⌠roflâŚ
Asmongold answering that it literally does not matter. The game should not in any way be balanced around whatever the degens at the top of the game does.
Seriously if these RWF people want to do something competitive. Then can´t they do something like play chess / Dota2? Maybe study physics at Imperial College? Instead of wanting an entire game to be based around them, so they can lord it over people in a game meant for casuals who suck at computer games.
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Well scripe calling other guilds worse. I just wonder how much worse the rest of the world realy is compare to them if everyone had a same gear and time commitment. Meaning that if every guild had an option to borrow and spent 800 million golds every tier and raid all day long for two weeks.
Just out of the curiosity.
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Whoaa how suprising , how can it be that way !! * sarcasm*
Even though the content was overall harder; the overall ââfunââ was better just because of barrowed power from bfa ; independant from the tier sets. Tier sets should only be cosmetic tbh. And if barrowed powers exists ; it should be classwide or ââexpansionwideââ.
Too much time ,too much strings attached , too much plannning. Also lets forget that not everyone has good graphic cards to play fluently in raids.(especially 25man)
Ive been playing for a long time in wow. Ive never seen anyone doing mythic raids in my list in shadowlands. (i remember a few guys that invited me for specific bosses in bfa for mythics raids⌠so it was better before i can say in that way)
a raid should be as easy as last patch of the day ; at the first launch of the day. Same rule applies to the m+ as well.
-wow ; what a marginal idea you say ; what about timegating??
-time gating is an illusion. No one can force another to play the game. Only memories with friends are important.Time gating brings more disrupts to the game in the long run.
it is debatable. But most of the classic hype diminished over time. You know why? Answer is masterloot.
All those classic fans will hate me for saying this. But the reason why classic realms are slowly dying is masterloot. Take it ,or leave it. Thats my hypothesis.
Äą wrote this before; m+ raiders came into defense of why mthic raids should exist in game etcâŚ
I should write this again then. Both hc and mythic raids should go.
difficulties should be like ;
Normal dung>hc dung>mythic dung >m+15 dung=raid
You can also say heroic raids should stay in game no matter what ; because it existed in tbc ; which is understandable; but this ââlink xx curve achiv or no invââ type of gameplay environment is broken and doesnt benefit in raiding.
Those who does have that achievement ; probably doesnt really need that achievement and probably trying to get into raiding and doesnt really serve the purpose of ââdoing content in a crowdââ
Äą think m+ raiders wont acknowledge this issue because they dont want to.Until they acknowledge this problem this participation will go lower and lower and then theyâll realise they cant find any players to actually raid people with.
From my perspective ; not only gearwise; but also skillwise ; mythic raiding is inaccessable for majority of players.
Äą also think there are nearly no ways to ''overpower ââ mythic raids with any other gears than raids.And this one is one of the main problems of raiding.
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Its easier to hold down a rotation against PvE mobs/bosses than play an MOBA or FPS where your opposition can be massively unpredictable, the majority of the Pro-WoW RWF crowd would struggle to compete in other genres as the skill set is on another level.
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So almost every argument against my case boils down to:
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What evidence do I have that the raid is a disaster?
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There should be hard content, not everything should be easy
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The RWF provides excellent hype, which in turn is good for the game.
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No one likes to raid anymore, too time consuming.
Well as I have edited into my original post here are the numbers for the current raid versus the Classic TBC current raid
Notice how retail WoW raiding, with all the difficulties combined, normal, heroic and mythic, is still doing considerably worse than Classic TBC.
So addressing the arguments
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The numbers are freely available, this tier is a disaster. I´ve just posted them as evidence.
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If you think there should be very difficult content, that´s fine. But all numbers show that WoW was most successful when content was easy (Wrath). If you want ppl to actually play this game, you should want content to be easier. If u want to play a dying game, then sure pray for continued hard content created with the intent to stroke the ego of Limit / Echo raiders who pretend to care about the community.
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If the RWF race provides so much hype, then why is the raid that took TBC classic players half an hour or whatever to clear more popular than the current raid which apparently had so much ´´hype´´ for it? Looks like maybe ppl just watch the content on stream and then do not play the game? Secondly, Asmongold honestly provides much more hype for WoW than these RWF players. Asmongold has 80 000 ppl watching a silly transmog contest, whenever he streams WoW. RWF can only hold 1-3 times that number for like 4 weeks a year. So the numbers for hardcore content versus casual content are pretty awful. MDI numbers are bad too of course.
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The success of raiding in TBC Classic shows that clearly people still want to raid. They just do not want to do raids with unlimited trash and way too many bosses, many of whom are tuned for 0.1 % of players.
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The easiest answer is a separation of Church and State.
Have a dedicated Raid Team and thatâs all they do.
Have a dedicated PvP Team With sub-teams for Arena and BGs with a focus on rated for each.
The horrible truth is, while there are more casuals in the game than hardcore players, the hardcore players do indeed matter more. I say this as a casual myself.
It would be entirely boring for both the casuals and game designers to cater to casuals that just wanna pop on and off. Do casuals have a place? Of course they do, but who gets hyped over mediocre stuff? No-one. My best memories are most in PvP trying to find off-meta specs / comps to play with to see what can work.
What do casuals do outside of the entry level stuff? Nothing much. Theyâre needed, but if you aim the hardest / best content at casuals youâll kill any game as the challenge would vanish.
Iâm not fan of RWF, but Iâm not against it either, itâs entertaining for lots of people. Let people enjoy things.
Iâm happy u can buy mythic mounts with gold that gets 1% next expansion, just look at nyâalotha mount atm u canât even kill that boss in a full group becouse itâs to hard for a pug, add 1% drop rate to that.
I guess that problem is on blizz side, u shoud be able to faceroll that boss but they donât tune old raids good anymore.
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