The participation numbers are falling off because you can get all the gear you want from m+, and the endboss loot has never been itemized worse ~ giving no incentive to go for it.
More massive nerfs, wouldn´t even surprise me that we will get more after this.
Also what is the point of them coming now? Most AoTC guilds have gone on holiday by now or quit the game by now.
If we look at logs, Classic TBC keeps kicking retail WoW´s butt.
Warcraft Logs - Combat Analysis for Warcraft
A lot of streamers keep on making up copium that this raid was just an outlier. But with the RWF arms race, every race that lasts the same amount of time (8-9 days), is a failure. With how much more effort and money the RWF guilds pour into the raid, the clear time should be falling every tier. Of course they (RWF) raiders do not understand this because it is in their own interest not to.
It is very useful for warnings in general.Especially to tanks when they need to taunt.
I donât see the point of that either.ForLords of Dread.I have it .I have done it.But i am negative.
How to save Raids: Make it playable for 5 People.
Nobody wants to bother with guild dramas with people that have no social life in order to be able to clear a fkin hc raid 
.
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And people that are now 19-20?? what are they? zoomers
iâm not familiar with this because iâm from old 00â time when we listen to rap and were runing around blocks we never lived that MEME life on internet
Are you kidding? I just linked logs from TBC classic showing parses from almost 800.000 destro locksâŚ
We will see logs from Wtlk Naxx, personally I predict classes will be hitting over a million.
There clearly is still a market for raids.
On the thread in general
Sorry but what the heck is wrong with these RWF players? Genuinely what is their problem? Do they just really want to kill the game for everyone?
Meh what else would you do in tbc??? There is no other option besides raiding so maybe thats why many people doin it kinda obvious
If people don´t like TBC Classic they just stop? They´re not like us retail addicts who will play whatever Blizzard throws at us⌠And even then⌠Somehow TBC Classic has considerably more raid logs?
A lot of the fun of PvE is the constant push to improve your and your peers play during progression and farm. A spell like Power Infusion creates unneccesarry tensions between players of the same role/class and makes it frustrating to compete with one another.
â Nnoggie (@nnoggie) July 2, 2022
Like these so-called ´´uber´´ competitive WoW players don´t understand WoW or competitive gaming at all. If PvE is some competitive E-sport then you can never play with friends in raids because the skill gap will always be too large.
In something like Dota2 I can have enough MMR to play with professionals and at the same time sign up with casual friends if I want to, without it absolutely ruining everything.
In current retail WoW you would have to be a crazy person to play with friends significantly worse than you in Mythic raids. They would wipe you on mythic fights non-stop and annoy everyone else. This is why dad guilds in Classic are having such a huge success, you don´t need a lot of skill, so it doesn´t feel like someone is pulling the entire raid team down, and therefore you can still play with friends and have a good time.
Even worse, they talk about competitiveness⌠and yet play WoW. World of Warcraft is the biggest joke in esports history. Every other esports gamer thinks these people are awful at computer games, big fish in a small pond. They´re the butt of ´don´t stand in fire´ jokes.
Want a challenge? Go play Dota2, go play Chess or go take a PhD. Don´t ruin a MMORPG so you can feel special.
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They literally do play whatever Blizz throws at them? So many Problems in Vanilla and TBC Classic that just be ignored? Look at bots for example? They are way worse then retail players when it comes down to accepting sht.
There are more Raidlogs in TBC then in Retail because u cant do anything besides raiding. If TBC had M+ that would reward Players with Gear on Raidlvl u would see more people do that.
Thats kinda point. If Blizzard wants to keep m+ in the game they migh also just stop developing raids becouse its really is just waste of time.
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At this point I think that if weâre to keep RWF, it needs to be officially sanctioned and kept on a separate realm as an event, kinda like the MDI and PVP events.
This way, it can include exclusive rewards, and difficulty, without impact the rest of us.
Blizzard can even then design separate approaches for RWF raiders and non RWF players.
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Surely they would just play a different game? This isnât much of an argument, in TBC people do BGâs/Arena and level alts, run raids etc etc. Retail has other things to do, but Mythic raiding is so much of an effort that nobody can be bothered with it.
Raiding works in TBC because itâs doable, Sunwell is âhard enoughâ without being designed for the world championships. Gear progression in TBC is also way, way better than in retail because lines are blurred between tiers and you donât go from one raid to the next and find your gear completely obsolete.
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Might be a good idea to just craft the gear you need and let m+/ raid only drop the materials for it.
Philosophy: Play what you like and craft what you need
Well looks like we won.
Lessons Learned: Sepulcher was an Arms Race that Wonât be Repeated in Dragonflight - Wowhead News
Ion says that Blizzard gives up. They got caught up in an arms race with Echo and Limit, and content won´t have this crazy mechanics in the future.
No point in keeping this topic alive anymore.
Congratulations to everyone we won!!
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Oh god. The takeaway from streamers like Preach is that Heroic Raiding⌠Should be harder??? I wasn´t going to update this thread, but this opinion from Preach is so out of touch, awful and dumb that I had no other choice.
Does this guy not realize how many casual guilds died back in SoD? Did the Sylvanus fight just never happen? Does he think these casual guilds raid Mythic??
Kinda ironic that Preach managed to point out why raiding was declining during Nighthold in Legion due to increase in difficulty and annoying reclears, and now he is like, yeah you know the heroic raid that drops loot WORSE than M+? Yeah, that gameplay should be harder.
This is why we need more people like Holly Longdale in charge at Blizzard, call me a feminist or W/E, but at least women don´t give a damn about what streamers who get paid to play the game 70 hours a week think about the game. Only the male employees are dorky enough to care about the opinion of Echo / Limit / Streamers and to crave their validation. The women care about results, people playing the game, not platonic friendship with RWF raiders.
I wonder what kind of excuse yoz will use when DF raiding will be in excat same situation as in Shadowlands. Becouse spoiler alert it will.
i guess these streamers say just what someone tell them to say or more rewarding.
If they could gain more money speakin about âgrimrail depot is the best dungeon to have in s4â they will say that.
All of them. Pro and against warcraft.
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Well to be honest, Iâd agree with that in some regards. There are currently too many difficulties, 4 raid and 3,5 dungeon.
Either mythic or HC should be removed, so LFR can remain for people who only want to see the raid, normal for casual guilds and HC for the top raiders.
Same with dungeons. Either remove Mythic or HC. Normal should be for leveling and early gearing, HC should be for entry max level gear and HC+ (or M+, I donât care) for higher gear.
What is the point of having both normal and HC?
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Personally, id remove Normal and have HC turned higher. But lets be honest here, how many of us that have played the game for any reasonable amount of time bother with Normal and Heroic?? At a guess, id say most people jump straight into M0 and go from there
It depends on how much catch up gear is available.