Asmongold is right RWF is ruining WoW

Community General Discussion
41

That’s not true. RAIDs were always historicaly very Tiny part of endgame and untill lfr in cata barely Anyone raided at all. Its official news that they were thinking about removal of RAIDs from game and lfr saved raiding from beiing cut from game.

Most likely that was a time when they started to think about megadungeons with 7-8 bosses as being replacement for RAIDs but because of lfr they didnt have to rush IT and they coudl just do 1 per expansion since legion

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42

What a load of hyperbole bs. The only sentiment I agree with is hiding unique loot with game breaking procs behind end bosses. Stuff like Old Warriors soul, jailer mace, sylv dagger and veinripper shouldn’t exist like that.

43

You just made that up. Have a look at classic. Until legion basically the endgame in wow was raid or die. How can you say raids were a tiny part when it literally was the only thing you did at max level even as PvP player.

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44

Shush, we don’t take kindly to facts 'round these forums.

PS Vulpera are a core race of WoW dating back to WCII and Overwatch.

45

There is a recent video from LiquidMax where he is talking about this and the lengths he and the WF guys will go to, to win. There is a moment where it seems like he’s taking himself into saying that the raids are too hard but stops short.

Now of course there are a myriad of reasons why I could be wrong, maybe he genuinely doesn’t believe they are too hard, maybe he thinks it’s not a design issue but mainly tuning, maybe I’m projecting. But when I imagine I’m right, it just makes me a little sad. I mean if I’m right, does that mean he won’t say they’re too hard because of peoples opinions? Because it’s bad for business? Because he has to live up to some expectation? Backlash from supporters?

I can’t think of any reason that doesn’t just make me a little depressed. If I am right I’d much rather live in a world where a guy who gets paid to play video games actually has fun playing them.

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46

Asmongold is not right aboot raiding because he hasn’t raid since Legion, which is forever. That being said, team 2 did simplify and streamline classes gameplay so that players can focus on doing mechanics. If anything, they should make easier bosses but harder classes to play.

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47

I can’t speak for normal and higher difficulties, because I only do LFR.
But I have to say that raiding even LFR is becoming less and less fun for me because Blizzard just keeps making the fights more and more complicated. I don’t want to dance. I don’t want to match symbols or look for a coloured circle that I HAVE to jump into or any of that.
I just want to shoot a boss and sure, sometimes move out of a big telegraphed AoE.

Imo Blizzard should start making raids more basic again.

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48

I think Asmongold often simplifies things too much which is why he is wrong sometimes, but I am not in the position to judge that based on a good overview because I rarely see a video of him.
In that case he is, sadly imho, right. The whole WoW system is really bad this expansion and the raid tuning so maybe 500 out of 1,8 millionen WoW players have fun is beyond stupid.
Imho there is too much raid difficulties anyway. Give us LfR, normal and a hard mode. It’s completely enough, you can pug through normal and guilds get a hard version to progress.
This changes ilvl development too - which is a good thing

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49

Wut.

I barely touched raids on the character I got to 2.2k rating on.

50

Asmongold this, asmongold that. What is this? Hero worship?

Go back to his YouTube and spare us your pages of droning on about this nobody, for heavens sake.

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51

I agree with asmongold on many topics, but this is pure bs.

No one is forcing you to do the hardest content in the game.

Is like crying for not being able to push +15 keys or get glad in pvp.

52

Yes its dieing and no it isnt becouse of diffifulty. Its becouse mythic+ is simply way more effifient and easyer to get gear there than raiding nothing els. Also gearing nowdays in wow is kinda pointless as it really doesnt give any reasons to actualy gear. And dont forget fact you can earn over 250+ itemlvl just by doing world content.

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53

Regurgitating non-sense from some youtuber?

Raiding is fine, there is simply less incentive to do it mainly due to:

Time-consumption/
RNG raid drops/
Raid scheduling or Pug Experience/
Raid-scale groups are no longer viable in this game due to lower playerbase/lack of commitment.

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54

you have a strange definition of something being fine

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55

normal and heroic raids should be done on LFG basis with random matchmacking cross realm and cross faction

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56

No that doesn’t happen

57

I wouldn’t say RWF is killing WoW but it doesn’t help the game either.

Blizzard and RWF/top end competitive guilds are trying to turn WoW into an esport type game but it doesn’t work because WoW is a huge MMORPG and esports fundamentally have a small amount of heavily concentrated game modes.

Blizzard making their WoW design choices in the way that they are shows in their failing attempts at relevancy as an esport, they need to get back to designing an MMORPG again. Having challenging content is fine but it ultimately has to be designed alongside the rest of the game rather than its own niche.

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58

Same for me.

I started playing WoW as a teenager, now I’m in my 30s. I don’t have the statistics to back this but I suspect I’m in the majority of WoW’s demographic.

I can’t commit to a raid schedule with any guild - work, family… basically life doesn’t permit me sitting down for a scheduled 3 hour window.

I love to raid but my only option is to pickup group when I have free time. The atmosphere of the groups I join is often hostile with people being toxic towards each other for failing the slightest of mechanics.

This doesn’t feel right, it feels like it’s going against the biggest strength of an MMORPG of bringing people together and community building.

Sure, no one wants to fight a boss that you can kill with your eyes closed, but something less intense, that doesn’t require addons or weak auras to track tactics, that doesn’t pit player against player when the tiniest thing is done incorrectly.

At the end of the day we are community that just wanna have fun.
How on earth can you kick back and have fun when it feels like you are working a day in the office and your boss has just doubled team’s workload and the deadline is end of day.

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59

And why should yours be more correct?

Don’t get me wrong, he isn’t necessarily wiser as the rest of us, but in this case he makes a solid point.
We all see what is happening with raid tuning, we see how the game shifted from a good experience for all types of players (Legion, WoD, Cataclysm or even WotLk) into getting forced into a certain direction - aka “seasons” like in Diablo.
And I additionally agree with him that the introduction of the token was big step into the wrong direction, because no you have a legal way of buying achievements, buying gear that for a lot of players is easier (use paypal) to do content than:
making friends, make a group, try hard, kill a boss, get the gear

And the RWF showed how bad this thing has become. Spending millions of WoW gold on gear for a world first that will be “earned” back by boosting services is hillariously bad for the game.

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60

I think there’s a lot of truth here, but I also feel like adding my own story.

Why did I quit Mythic raiding?

I’m your sort-of top 1000 average mythic raiding sort of person, and I was leading the guild Silverblade together with some friends. We had stuck together since the first of July, 2016, and things were going great.

However, 9.1 and 9.2 broke us apart. Though parts of the old guild still raids in different guilds, most of the guild has quit the game and we now see one another only on our Discord - and even that is thinning out now with the lack of a common interest.

When we stopped raiding it came as a great relief to many, and here are my reasons:

  1. The Alliance was a pain to recruit for to the point of being nearly impossible. Fortunately our roster had very well stabilized - which is good, because if it hadn’t we’d have broken apart in weeks.
  2. Dailies. The game had an excessive obsession with daily and weekly content. After all 6-9 hours (we had 3 hours of optional raiding) of raiding time were spent we needed an hour a day plus some extra time for the weeklies. This added up to an additional 8 or so hours, landing us at, let’s be real at least for my case, 17 hours of WoW per week. And then there were guild drama issues and the like which had to be solved. And I wanted to PvP or do M+, but I could not. There were not enough hours in the week for me to be able to do anything but raid and do dailies - and this made me weak at the game and resentful towards Blizzard. Looking back at what I said about Blizzard’s design sensibilities, I retract nothing. My irritation was fully justified.
  3. Why were we forced to do all those dailies? Because without them we would have weak conduits, or weak shards of Domination, or weak legendaries, or not enough gold for legendaries, or whatever else. The game was unplayable. It felt like doing M+ cost me money - I had to sacrifice my wallet for WoW tokens in order to participate in PvP and M+, and it still does, even after I’ve stopped raiding. Ironically, easy content was blocking our ability to do the content appropriate for our level of difficulty. This is okay and sometimes even fun, but it has a limit, and that limit was so far overstepped we couldn’t even see the line that was overstepped from where we were.
  4. The raids weren’t necessarily getting harder at least until 9.2, but they were getting evermore obnoxious mechanics. Even the tiniest mistakes were being punished very hard, and it kept getting worse. With the release of 9.2 we decided to head back into a Heroic mode raid. We gathered 12 raiders and stepped inside. And we got destroyed. We eventually managed 3 bosses - where normally we would’ve killed 6 to 7 in the first night of Heroic. Subsequent raids did not happen because everybody assuemd the raid had failed because all the players were now bad all of a sudden because we’d quit a few months prior. Well, turns out nothing could be further from the truth.

All these things combined and viciously pushed me away from raiding.

I, however, disagree with you that the problem is too high difficulty in and of itself. No, I believe it is quite different: The difficulty is coming from execution alone for high end players, but then recombines with gear progression for everybody else. Bosses have hundreds of mechanics (no, literally. Count them! 100+ is quite common) and are very tricky to manage and defeat.

This stands in stark contrast to earlier iterations where most fights were actually fairly tight checks of gear or character preparation. Resistance fights, DPS check fights, large health pool fights, etc. And yes, there would be the odd uber-mega-caster-5000-mechanics-fight; but only 1, maybe 2. Not a raid full of them.

RWF players have broken the concept of gear progression by splitrunning and buying boosts of 4-manning M+ and having the loot drop into their mailbox - and hoovering up entire servers worth of gear, spending tens of thousands or even, as I heard recently, hundreds of thousands of USD worth of tokens! The token is in very large part responsible for this! So these people run in with 2pc and 4pc and just insane gear in week 2 by literally paying for it.

And now Blizzard wants to maintain a challenge for these guilds, and they figure the right way to do that is to buff all the bosses in all difficulty levels - while simultaneously forgetting that other players are not spending tens of thousands of dollars on gear.

It’s… honestly. I can raid. I have raided. I would raid. But not like this. I refuse to spend so much money or to spend so much time in a tiny zone doing the same thing over and over again because I otherwise risk being the one who makes the raid not be possible to complete. Even when I set out to make a guild that wants to do Mythic raiding in a chill manner - not racing it but progressing through it over time and not being forced to play all day and every day - Blizzard designs me out of that space by adding easy content, of all things, to the game. And then they frustrate even top 0.1% guilds with a difficulty spike just afterwards.

I have no words for how I feel about Blizzard’s mythic raiding design at this point, but… all I can say is I’ve had enough. Probably forever at that.

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