I really hope they dont do this. It would be a crazy massive mistake…
Especially not in the way they rolled out Aug…
Massive mistake? I would love to see statistics on that.
On the other hand, if it is a “problem”. Do not give me the comp and pug versions of this story cause that is not really the case. Cause If you are pushing higher level content then by now, if you are not in a guild then you cannot blame the solo minded people. Everyone has a meta, tank, healer and dps season. And sadly yes there is just one supp spec atm “AUG Evoker”.
I have never bothered or played with Aug evoker, it is a choice. Now only elitist would have that mindset, and if you are solo or joining pugs, now that is on you. Instead of joining a chill dungeon guild. You are using your time debating on a spec that is new and has issues like people are stating. WoW is testing a lot of stuff, so we need to wait and see what happens. I am all up for new stuff, cause the gaming industry is evolving and the game needs to change and evolve.
Sadly the majority of the population has the elitist mindset, in low - mid and high end keys. As it always has been within world of warcraft. People will always choose the easy way out. Now one might argue that’s the issue of the people, but in reality it’s the company behind the game that creates the problem.
The augmentation evoker brings extra tankyness towards the group, which means a key will always feel 1 level easier. This is also the only support specialization.
Which basically means one thing. If augmentation stays the same as it is now, it will stay Meta for the next few years of World of Warcraft. It already has been meta for the last 3 seasons since it’s release, and it will continue to do so, forcing people to reroll and play augmentation if they only want a slight chance of getting an invite or push higher. Yes it’s only people who have the elite mindset who will invite augmentation evoker, but you’re talking about 90-95% of the population here, almost everyone has an elite mindset when it comes to taking the easy way out.
Also don’t get me wrong. I want World of warcraft to Evolve and implement new ideas. However it must be done correctly. Augmentation evoker was a rushed decision and was implemented very poorly, and i’m sure everyone remembers how overtuned it was in season 2, basically proving there 0 effort from blizzard towards propper tuning. Yet they keep going forward in this trend completely ignoring the M+ scene.
So aslong as augmentation evoker makes the key level 1 level easier, it basically is a big F towards people who want freedom of choice in what to play and push keys. Anyone who supports augmentation evoker as it currently stands basically supports the idea of removing the freedom of choice within World of warcraft.
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To be honest… I’ve never felt a difference in content with them being added to the roster.
It is always a choice, like i said in my previous post. If people pug or solo, they are asking for others to choose meta. I would recommend joining a guild that has the taste people are after. No matter what problems appear there will always be ups and downs, better to find middle ground for now.
OK. Lets assume we got Enh (new support style spec). Same concept as Aug but different stats (buffing haste instead of versatility), things like that.
What would happen if Aug buffs Enh, and Enh buffs Aug, and then both buff 1 DPS ? Remember, Aug is classified as a DPS. There is no limit to how many you can have.
What do you do then? Remember that buffs in WoW are not additive, but multiplicative. For those that don’t know : If you stack as many buffs as possible at the same time you get MORE performance than using those buffs 1 by 1 in a sequence. That is how wow works.
So what now ? Turns out that the new M+ meta will be the 1 FOTM DPS and 2 busted Support Specs ? Is that what you want to achieve ?
NO. Aug and all its “support” class specs should have its own unique Roll : Support Roll. Healer, DD, Tank and + Support. That way Aug competes with other support rolls, and not with DDs. And this is the KEY problem here.
Until Blizz does that, they should delete Aug. Leave it in a cupboard for a future in which there is a support roll.
And if Blizz never manages to create a new roll in the PvE scene… then… Aug should be put in the same place Enhancement, Discipline, and a couple others were in Vanilla : Back to the holy trinity.
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I still fail to see the massive mistake. This is only an issue when people think it is an issue, just because people see or watch top end people going for the metas. Does not mean we cannot try other classes. This side of WoW and other games is so onesided, making the majority feel inferior. Needing to fallow and play classes and specs because people in the top end found the higher numbers.
The real problem here is the dps meters. Aslong as we have them, no class and spec will ever be equal. And this is a dilemma we have every expansion. So we either find a middle ground. Like you said about adding a support que role for supp specs or put it on a shelf and release it when more supp speccs comes out.
So systemic problems are in our imagination and can in no way be predicted ? Is that what you are claiming ?
When things are so OP and broken, its stupid not to take advantage of that even if its a 2+.
And lets talk about the meta for a minute here… cause I think you people miss the point of what class balance is important…
Here is what really happens :
Player “jimmy” tries out M+. Starts out in a 2+. And slowly as the season progresses he starts to progress to a +5, a +10… And then that player tries out “pushing keys” (doing keys above 10+ just for the challenge)…
The question is : Sure. Up to now he was able to do all the content. But how long until his “off meta” class is no longer accepted into groups ? What key level is that “line” ?
Is it in a +12? A +15? Or is it in a +21 (1 key level less than the pros)?
And why does this matter? Because its beneficial to ALL players to have Mr. Jimmy here try out pushing keys. More players == more fun. Simple. But if Mr. Jimmy here is being rejected from groups for not being “meta” on an +11, then its a problem… a big one…
I fail to see how people were blind in the 10.1.7 beta when Aug was introduced… And the problems it would create…
And I am baffled how people continue to be blind…
No its not. The number you see on the damage meter is the product of many factors.
But what makes or breaks an OP class in M+ is not the DPS it can do. Its the Utility and its synergy with other specs.
Why is VDH “meta”? Is it tankier? NO. It happens to have double sigil (utility) and chaos brand (+5% magic damage).
Why is SP “meta”? Does it do a ton of DPS? Nope. Its Fortitude and other utility. Plus its a caster (VDH synergy).
… I wont go through them all…
But if you add a thing like Aug that “does it ALL” with out any penalty. Well of course it will be forever “meta”. And if you on top of that add a second class that has all the advantages with out any penalty then OF COURSE it will be meta for ever.
And unless Mr. Jimmy plays those specs he will forever be in LFG looking for an 11+ and simply stop playing.
This is the 1 of the 2 absolute roots of the problem why Augmentation (and generally any support) will either busted OP or outright worse than useless.
And the 2nd root is that nearly every buff / debuff (there are very few exceptions) have a static duration and are not based on result / usage.
TL:DR of what should be a long post:
- Every buff should be converted from “lasts x seconds” to “lasts until x actions have been taken” or “lasts until x extra damage has been dealt”.
- Buffs should be reworked to either work additively, or even better in my opinion, hierarchically (wow, I spelt it correct on the first try) based on effect. Example: Suppose you have buff A that increases damage by 10% for 30 seconds and buff B that increases damage by 20% for 10 seconds. Buff A is cast first and applies 10% damage increase. Buff B is cast 7 seconds later. Buff B takes priority over Buff A due to being “stronger”, so the end result is: Buff A for 7 seconds, Buff B only for 10 seconds (Buff A is suppressed), then Buff A again for 13 seconds.
Blizzard has already applied the above to shield-type buffs. Shields may have a duration, but they always end prematurely (teenage smirk) if incoming damage exceeds the maximum shielding amount. Also casting 2 shields at the same time and taking damage reduces the durability of only one of the two. In my opinion this should be applied to damage-done buffs as well.
I agree with you. But I would go for a simpler approach.
IMO the concept of “raid buff” has gone out of hand…
Some degree of normalization is required in my opinion. NOTE : Normalization is not the same word as homogenization.
What I would do is ditch trying to make each spec “unique” with its own “unique buff”.
One thing that would be cool is splitting the buffs from “melee” and “ranged” categories. To atleast give rise to 2 M+ metas instead of only 1.
What we pre-augevoker had was obviously also meta at the top, but when you looked closely to every dungeon specific there were actually other specs with certain utility a tiny bit better. On live you can obviously not change your main that easy and people want to play 1 character as high as possible. But when you pugged you knew specific non meta classes/specs could have a pro in that specific dungeon.
Right now aug is so good, and is optimized with only specific other classes, that the meta is completely set. For every dungeon. Everywhere the same. There is no spec that secretly can walk in for a dungeon because that one is actually a pro.
When you looked at The Great Push in different seasons there was always x dungeon takes this healer, and in that dungeon that healer or tank. Optimalizations were possible since specs were close to each other and specific utility made a spec a pro for that instance. Right now because of the AugEvoker the meta for pushing keys on live and TGP is completely set in stone.
4 People in this posts .
- I have never bothered- played Augmentation Evoker
- I don’t do Mythic +
- Your mindset is that of the Elitist (But i don’t do any content )
So basically people that don’t bother with the content …they don’t do it at all , suggest people to approach the game as a mindless noob because is a game and they shouldn’t bother at all.
So question , how someone that don’t do Mythic + (he already stated ) It’s not in a raiding guild …he doesn’t even enchant hes gear but start arguing and defending something that has Zero idea about it.
Currently in this topic we have people that are doing +15 and point at the problem with the Augmentation evoker …And people that don’t do any content and try to defend spreading nonsense at the lvl of ( your elitist and you don’t know …and so on. )
Just a reminder, rather than being in a conversation that you don’t have the slight knowledge just pass away.
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+1. Well said.
Agree with this. People comment way to quick often
I don’t understand argument, all statistics i see is that aug is low on participation, i rarely got applied by augs, usually it’s devokers.
From which range augvokers become common?
They 100% make it easier. Especially as a tank
Usually +10 and above you’ll see groups wanting to go with only augmentation evokers. The higher you go, the more it becomes common. It’s a problem for sure.
isn’t +10 and above bound to be most efficient only meta compostions? it’s overly tuned level where you need maximum efficiency with pugs to lower chance of depleting key, from this angle SP is much more of a problem because it’s preffered on EVERY level and judging by various stats always has higher participation than all of the popular specs
Very correct. There’s always a meta composition. And seeing past experience the meta always changes. With sometimes there being 1 or 2 meta classes.
However since aug got introduced, it always has been meta and will continue to do so in its current state. The problem with that is, that 1 dps slot is always reserved for augment, making less room for different meta comps every season. As it stands now aug evoker will be meta for many more years.
give god like def buff party primary stats healer give crit buff plus blood lust make party almost immortal dont tink want to do dungen whit out aug just too good