Autism Awareness Month: anyone else having difficulties with raids?


(Ivydoom) #61

You obviously don’t get it. If it was that easy for us do you think this thread would exist?

eta: My guild took me through BfD but I missed the previous raid and while I have opened the raid finder several times, I haven’t gotten to the point yet where I actually queue. And I only need the final wing for quest, I know it will be ‘easy’ but something is stopping me from doing it anyway. THAT is what we mean. It’s really not that easy for some people.


#62

I totally see what you’re saying but it would have been your choice (if there was one) to have ‘had to do it’ rather than skip it so it wouldn’t be unfair at all to be honest.

Zamandah is right when he(she? sorry!) says this is a game. It’s something we do for fun. People should be free to take the easy or challenging routes to their end goals if there is an option to do so without being judged by others for their choices or the reasons behind those choices.


#63

Thanks but I don’t think you really understood what I was saying. Listening is still using voice chat. There is nothing wrong with my attention span, I’m a student, my attention span is just fine.

It’s my memory that’s the problem. If I can’t see something written down I can forget it pretty much instantaneously. It doesn’t always happen but it does frequently enough for me to stay away from situations like this because they are simply not enjoyable for me.

This is why I’ve been soloing dungeons and old raids, and I do find them fun oddly enough. Though, it would be good to team up with like-minded players who are willing to take their time and type in chat as has already been mentioned above.


(Ternezia) #64

I agree completely. I have my own reasons to avoid raids and pugs (one of the reasons is because I am sensitive to abuse/rudeness towards me and I want to avoid places where this can happen, for me the game is a time to chill and relax, not to be offended by strangers).

Players should not be forced into something in order to progress further, neither into obligatory pve, or obligatory pvp. Putting a raid into the war campaign chain is the worst design decision. Although I can do it in LFR, I see no reason why. Just make a shortcut sinematic for those who don’t want to, bla-bla and all done.


#65

First of all, can I just say to Kaediath, I would triple “like” your post if I could? :blush:

THIS! absolutely! I don’t get why some people think, it’s taking away from their own game, if someone else has something they don’t have. I realise, that in some respects the game lives off this kind of competitive jealousy (“look, I have this rare armour / mount / doodad!”), but as an attitude towards other players, it is toxic for the community.

The “just by listening” is actually part of the problem. Try to imagine, you’re doing this, as you described, but someone is pouring hot water over you, while you play. Each time someone speaks in voice chat and each time there’s a sound or visual effect, the water gets a little hotter. The effect stacks. Depending on how long it goes on, it might feel unbearable.
And now imagine what this is going to do to your concentration and ability to focus. After a few minutes of this, you just want it to stop. Then someone in the game notices you’re doing stuff wrong and starts shouting at you.
Welcome to my world.

The thing is, being neurodiverse is hard, it’s not just what we encounter in game, the world around us is designed for neurotypical people. I have enough to deal with in my daily life, I don’t need another challenging situation when I come home in the evening, totally drained, and just want to relax in front of the computer for a few hours to take my mind off things. (If you now say “go play Stardew Valley!”, I will come after you in game, I will find you and I will frown at you! :wink: )

Not that I think anyone here would say that, because you’re all been lovely so far! x


(Áranaría) #66

But the point is your will be judged for using something like this if you like it or not that’s what I’ve been saying all along and in my view it would be negative from most of the people in the game who have done it the hard way. That’s why I am anti on it because I have grafted in the past on other characters to do things the hard way.

To me this idea would be a kick in the teeth because of the fact I made the effort on so many runs and so on to do something and then suddenly a magic button is put in allowing some other people to skip it. I still see that as being unfair and completely not the way you should do things on this game.

The real issue is that LFR and grouping with strangers is done by a tool that makes it easy to get away with bad conduct and or kicking for trivial reasons and also the way in which people talk to each other is at times down right offensive as well why because they are more than likely NOT going to run into you again if you do the same raid on a different day.

If those issues could fixed first of all then I suspect it would make it a lot easier for people on the spectrum to navigate and go through that experience but sadly it is unlikely to happen. I just thinking adding such button would be seen as one insulting the intelligence of a lot of players with the spectrum who are no affected in the ways some of you are and yes I do have a lot of empathy for any one with those issues.

But people like me who have over come those issues do not want to be slated if we happen to mention we have it because we would be classed as one of those people who presses a button to skip something the rest have done because of having AS or Autism that’s just not workable and a non starter to me and I would be very annoyed as my AS gives me off days and if it was in the game I would hesitate a lot to even mention my AS to anyone because they would just make a snap view of “Oh he has that just let him press that button as he’s probably not up to task of doing what is needed to be done” WITHOUT getting the satisfaction of taking part or what I would want to be rewarded for doing so.

I just think this is not the right way to go about highlighting the issues that AS and Autism sufferers face in this game with the stimulation issues at all. The real problem is people and how they conduct themselves and no amount of tinkering and changing the game is going to change that. Sadly we have to accept we need to learn to cope and find coping strategies in order to do things.

There is no easy answer either way.


#67

Sorry, you’re still arguing from a misconception.
It wasn’t meant as “here, have a special disability card, that you can wave around, alert anyone to your problems and make them jealous that you have the free ticket”.

I meant it as a mechanism that is just there as an alternative, free to everyone who wants to use it, regardless of their reason and there shouldn’t be any shame in this, no more than for example saying “I don’t like PvP” or “I don’t do crafting.”

Or instead, just refrain from making raids mandatory for story progression.

I totally see your point of “I worked hard to cope and overcome this” and I understand you’re proud. In order to get through the war campaign on Alliance side (yes, I’m a double agent, I play both sides) I had to complete a certain timed quest that cost me three afternoons of much swearing and failing and several tantrums until I finally managed. I was a bit proud too (but mostly annoyed that I had to waste so much time on that one thing).

We’re all different. Especially on the spectrum, there are such vast differences of how we react to things. Myself for example, I may be able to do that raid, just by turning everything down and grinding my teeth for an hour, then having a little lie down once it’s over. Other people might not have that option.

But yeah, you’re right, there is no easy way.


#68

I think this is pretty much where you can just use the community to its full potential. Just go on youtube and watch all the cutscense you want and even a full clear of the instance if that is what you are after :slight_smile:

In the end, WoW is a game and games are interactive. The story in WoW is there for you to experience and interactive with, not for you to just watch from afar. It is in Blizzards best interest to have the story be as interactive as possible and not like a passive rollercoaster ride.

So yeah, if you want to experience the story, there is already ways to experience it, you just have to go outside of the game.

PS: Aside from cutscenes, what experience are you after that you currently feel like the raiding task is keeping you away from?


#69

Again, I do see your point but, as Zamandah has explained so well:

I have to agree with this. If you, or anyone else has a problem with the way others have played the game to get the things that you’ve either had or done then, respectfully, that is your problem. You should be happy enough with how you did it. It’s very sad if you’re allowing this to spoil things for you or look at others in a negative way.

Now this we can agree on. :smiley:


#70

Last time I checked, the war campaign ends for me with the quest “Kill Jaina Proudmoore in the Battle for Dazar’alor”. I know there are more war campaign quests on the other side of this, but unless I do the raid quest first, this is where it ends.


#71

What blizzard is pretty much asking for you to do, is play the game to experience the story. With the addition of LFR, you can, if you want to, complete this quest within a reasonable amount of time.

Saying that that is too much, you are pretty much saying that you want to play the game without playing the game. Its a hard demand to give a game dev, whos primary job is to get people to play, maybe even an unreasonable demand.

I would again recommend, that you accept, that some of the game experiences of WoW is just not your taste and instead enjoy the story through youtube videos or text summaries on WoWHead. You can find the entire questline in both text form and as a playthrough on youtube, where you can enjoy the story in your own pace.

Demanding a solution from Blizzard to make their game less “gamie” is a bit unfair in my eyes :slight_smile:


#72

May I suggest you go back and re-read this entire thread? Because, with respect, you’ve either not done so or I think you are totally missing the point of it.

No-one is saying they ‘want to play the game without playing the game’. Not in the least. What people are saying is that, for genuine reasons, they are unable to play certain parts of the game. Most of the time this content can be avoided but not when it suddenly forms part of the story line!

And even some players who don’t have these issues have said it’s wrong to have a raid as part of actual story content that you have to do in order to progress.


#73

Horde warcampaign is cut with raid quest and you cannot continue it without doing it. It is the main storyline of the whole expansion. People who don’t raid (don’t want to or cannot for different reasons) are blocked out of the whole rest of the expansion.

This is just absolute manure. This game is not some lounge raid simulator, they are just one piece of the very big game. There is so much players in this game who have been entertained by it ever since vanilla on continuous subs who never have stepped their foot on any raids outside of maybe grinding some mounts in old raids solo. This current trend of blocking other elements of the game behind raids is going to cost Blizzard a lot of subs if they don’t relax on it. Not because people are “omg i am mad i quit” but because they cannot play the rest of the game anymore. It is serious problem.

I also find it interesting that in this same thread some people say raids shouldn’t be skippable “because they had to do it and their hard work would be in vein” arguments and some others are saying it’s super easy and just afk trough it. This already shows how very differently people can look these things. Does not sound like the ones afking trough it are enjoying that part of the quest either.

Having ability to skip the raid part is not much to ask. Just put there similar dialogue than when skipping some scenarios with alts that allows you to skip the raid part. No need to give rewards, leave the rewards for people who actually go and do the raid. Just let people to continue their story. Simple as that.


#74

You have expressed that so much better than I did. Thank you! :heart_eyes:


(Nimrhys) #75

This whole “people will judge me/see me as special” thing is ridiculous. Who gives a flying banana what random people think AND if they judge you for it and get bitter, no matter who they are, they’re not worth it.

Also, QoL changes are a progressive thing. Everything progresses. By the logic of “why should people have an easier time when I suffered through it” you should still be cooking off a fire pit and living in the wild. And why would you want others to suffer? Bitterness? These points are just selfish.


#76

Exactly. Especially puzzled by this :

I don’t uderstand who is judging? It is not like these people asking for skipping raid are applying for mythic plus or raids :rofl: People i play with (including myself) only judge people on one thing: behaviour. If someone is not being polite and friendly, they will not be part of our gaming experience. I could not care a elk antler for what someone wears, if they are “good players” or not, what they do in game or what they have achieved.


#77

By this logic I demand that we bring back ONE auction house per faction, in Orgrimmar and Ironforge and that young Nightelves of level 10 have to heroically die their way through the Wetlands, like in the olden days… oh wait, Sylvanas burned Teldrassil, didn’t she?

Seriously, Blizzard added so many things over the years that made our lives easier, it’s really no big deal.


#78

Op is clearly saying, that doing a quest, which requires him to either complete a wing of LFR or join a pug raid and do it completion, is too much for him. I say , that that task is so small, that it is within reason to demand of the player within the reason, that you are playing a game. The reason behind why he can’t play it is valid, but just because he is a valid reason, does not mean that Blizzard should automatic comply.

Besides, all of this happen because of previous feedback, that raids did not connect with the story or that most of the game happened only inside raids. Blizzard is acting on this feedback, making it so that you can do most of the story outside of doing any raids yet have the raid be important for the story. This makes it so that you have to deal with LFR once and i think that is an alright compromise.

Also, i have pointed OP to alot of other ways he could experience the story without doing anything raid related, so i think his problem solution is out there already


#79

Raids are part of the story in WoW. Content is part of the story. If you want to experience the story within the game, it only makes sense that you have to participate in that content. Should that be a hard barrier? No, which is also why Blizzard have created LFR, which allows everybody to see the entire story without much delay. Saying that you can’t even do the main focused form of content in the game, is an alright statement, but then you have to be ready to go to other sources to see what that content implies of cutscenes and story.

As a game designer, it is your job to make content work within the confides of the game, make content feel a natural part of the player experience. It is not to give your players easy ways around the content of the game, so that they can get as short and un-interactive experience as possible.

Let me again emphasize: Blizzard have already made this extremly easy with LFR, and if this content is not possible, there are other external ways to experience the content. But saying that you can’t play a part of the like, like can’t, then we are in a position where you can’t demand the game to open that position for you.

Not too long ago, there was a discussion about easy mode in Dark Souls. What you are asking for is not easy mode, but that the option to at any point in the game, skip every boss and remove all mobs just so you can talk to the NPCs and see the cutscenes. Im sorry, but then you remove the game and making it an interactive movie…


#80

If you would bother to read what people wrote on this thread or even just what i posted you wouldn’t be explaining this stuff. It is obvious you do not understand even half what kind of problems these people are having with this new system. And it is a new system to have main story line gated behind the raid. Read those post first and read what i wrote and then write something related to it not just general nonsense about your view of mmorpgs. I am not saying your view doesn’t matter but it has absolutely nothing to do what is talked here.