The discussions around pvp and especially AV have been perplexing to say the least in this forum. I have played a plethora of pvp games, from MOBAs such as LOL and DOTA, to fps games like counter-strike and Overwatch. One thing that any player that plays these games, or any PVP games in general, wants is a good balance and competitiveness where certain picks and maps do not dictate the outcome of any given game.
Why is this different with WOW? How come some people defend to tooth and nail a system that has a win rate as skewed as this? In Overwatch or League - to demonstrate - a 60% win rate on champ or hero will invariably lead to its nerf. I have never played a game before where other side has a 90% win rate, its unheard of.
Do people actually want PVP without competitiveness? I have to ask, what is even the point in that? More competitive games means better games, more engaged players (shorter queues), and more satisfying wins and more painful losses (which I think is a good think as it shows you actually care about the games, which is not the case with alliance in av anymore sadly).
AV in its current state is not fun, competitive or rewarding. Alliance might have dominated AV before, but the demographic as well as the mentality within the game has changed from back then which is plainly reflected in the fact that alliance pugs have been getting stomped well before and after the premade fixes.
I cannot enjoy a game where I can rarely win no matter how much effort I put into it. I loved AV 15 years ago and I hope there will be a time I can enjoy playing it again.
Itâs not good for the game if either side wins all the time. Wasnât good when alliance won 90% of the time, it isnât good when horde wins 90% of the time. Much more than 60% winrate and something is wrong somewhere (be it the map, the mentality, racials or something else - that doesnât really matter for a helicopter perspective).
My mind kinda goes to BTCC racing where successful cars must carry ballast. I personally think WoW could use something like that. If your win rate is too high you get a penalty (less hp/dmg etc) to even it out a bit.
Yes, yes - mouth breathers in the #nochanges crowd - it wonât happen and Iâm not asking for it - just saying it might actually be useful for the good of the game.
i still remember when allies dominated av in vanilla. what happened u ask? they gave us the crap version of av without fixing the exploits at all, so there u go. currently 80% of the av exploits favor horde, the other 20% favor ally, but only a group that knows how to use them, and all it takes for ally ones to fail is 1 noob not knowing about them.
I have a suggestion. Petition blizzard to build a time machine and bring back the alliance players and spirit that the present day lacks, instead of a mass of people that avoid pvp clashes and afk in hopes the rest of the team will carry them, as that is the biggest reason why we are unsuccessful.
Iâll give you an analogy: when either League or Overwatch have a very highly performing champ (over 60% win rate) and the community complains, the developers do not explain the win rate away with notions on how the players that pick that champ are generally better, or how the players who play an under-performing champ are somehow just bad players.
Neither the mentality of these players is ever mentioned. Pointing to a ââskill-levelââ or ââmentalityââ of the player-base, instead of looking at the concrete differences within the game that lead to the discrepancy in win rates is nothing but scapegoating.
There wonât be a natural miracle fix in the ââmentalityââ or ââskill-levelââ as demonstrated by the abysmal pug winrate throughout and after the alliance premades, but other things they can change, such as the map layout, premades for both sides etc.
Fair enough, the difference there is those are modern games with current ongoing support and development, unlike the 15 year old legacy game youâre complaining about balance.
⌠the legacy game that drove >50% of Blizz revenue in 2019. They better have an Ace up their sleeves with Shadowlands or their neglect of Classic will backfire spectacularly.
This insane Horde bias will come back to them financially one way or the other
Oh sacrilegious!!!
You should never say that alliance and horde players are not different regarding skill or mentality.
People (trolls and forum wannabies) honestly believe that those are very different grp of ppls (for some reason that flow their boats rly well) and if alliance player rerol horde either world will explode or player will became skilled and avare with winner mentality
But how exactly is it horde bias that the majority of alliance players queing for AV just canât play? Are you gonna say thatâs the direct result of serious pvpers going horde for racials known for 15 years? What would you have blizzard do, change racials and balance classic before launch which we will never know if it would have any impact over peopleâs choices or not. Have blizzard give incentives to mentally weak players to have them put more effort into fighting their battles? I thought that was the retail spirit and what it became, do you want classic to go that way? You sure do if it suits you.
And Iâm not saying Alliance players have losers mindset, they are computed to do so by the honor system.
And Horde players are the same.
But the queue time faction wise make faction players behave differently.
Is it enought to explain the winrate?
Maybe, maybe not, but it canât be discarded.
When a big part of the objectives giving honor is taken and the situation in the BG show low progress for either side, Alliance players (given the honor system/queue differential) are more incline to leave and requeue.
And the newcomers in the Alliance side have more interest to let the game end quickly.
So the BG is still 40 vs 40, but 10 newcomers in the Alliance arenât there for the win anymore.
The honor system and queue differential make those games 40 vs 30.
And at this point, victory is assured for the Horde (except again russian, they never really give up).
Whereas the queue times certainly affect the way the respective factions play the game, it shouldnât be held as a barrier to make any meaningful changes to the PVP in the game.
Let me reiterate: we all want (I hope) balanced and competitive pvp as that is the only way pvp is enjoyable for any competitive person. They are several reasons for the skewed win rate. I do not like changes in the game, but when it comes to pvp, balance should always be a top priority.
There are many things that make WOW different from the games I mentioned, thus also making balancing its PVP a more difficult task. Still, I do not see any reason why this shouldnât be done.
Any person who objects to balanced PVP doesnât really like PVP. I enjoy kicking the football around with my wee cousin, but I have the most fun when I play with my friends on equal grounds.
I donât believe that. There is a miss-understanding.
I also agree on fixing bugs and balancing the map BUT if I see a bad argument by an Ally player, regarding AV, I will start a discussion and explain why I disagree. . And many other Horde players do that.
âYes fix the exploits. No, I donât believe that meeting near Balinda makes any differenceâ.
If Blizzard, make these changes in AV, you will see that not many Horde players will complain. Especially about exploits.