Are you sure about that 50/50 population? And even if that’s true, I don’t think the people that queue up are split 50/50.
Ofc they aren’t. Population figures doesn’t equal people online at the same time all the time, nor does it equal the amount of people queuing up for BGs nor does it equal the amount of people queuing up for any specific BG in particular.
If human behavior was that simple to explain, like for example Crossie and that moronic use of binomial distribution which isn’t applicable in that way whatsoever, then you’d see an even split of everything at all times because the random value ends up in a coin flip of being online or not being online on both sides and queuing or not queuing while being online on both sides.
This won’t be fixed in classics lifetime and will actually get worse there is a few reasons
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Allience simply don’t queue the map is not symmetrical and hugely horde favoured with travel distance from respawns and cave respawns horde side and choke points resulting in 5% win rate for allience. So many horde are in denial and blizzard do not want to balance the map. The only players you get are rep farmers outside AV weekend which once they get exalted they will avoid it like the plague with no new players expect queue times to get worse
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Honor system is terrible it promotes Min/maxing hph so winning does not become a factor and causes players to bend games in All bgs nobody even plays for fun or to actually PvP as the longer the games go less honor you get. In AV’s case Allience will simply not defend and horde wants to drag out games for 30 Min bonus causing a miserable time for actual pvpers and casual players on Allience side which causes even less queuing.
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Time investment for PvP gear is not worth it for most classes anymore as you can simply join a few raids for few hours a week and get much better gear for PvP than the PvP set plus nobody likes grinding bgs for 12 hours a day.
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This can be partly blamed on xrealm matchmaking. Thing is, you don’t have many reasons to PvP in Classic in this massive xrealm matchmaking. Everyone can always get a match at all times of the day.
So imagine realm-only matchmaking, with vanilla population figures. It worked fine once upon a time, there’s no real reason it wouldn’t work now.
If you want examples of how recognition affects behavior and teamwork as well as the possible enjoyment from BGs then check out this old thread:
So you’re doomed to pretty much just think of yourself in BGs. Because you’ll never remember players that you don’t meet up with often enough to leave a lasting impression.
For example, you’ll never really have those random friendships/rivalries build up because 1. why bother getting to know people who doesn’t even play on your server? and 2. you’re much more unlikely to recognize people when you’re queuing solo so you never get that reason to randomly form a teamwork with a stranger from getting queued up together over and over again that builds up over time. Because you pretty much never remember them even if you do meet up a lot.
The damage of not forming rivalries with the opposite faction is also bad, because you never get a random trivial reason like “he killed me last BG, so this time I’ll chase him around all BG just for the hell of it”.
You inevitably end up with only selfish reasons to play, which is centered around rewards.
People had social reasons as well as the rewards, to PvP in vanilla. In Classic, if you’re queuing solo, then you pretty much only have the rewards to play for.
Also, I love how you guys keep insisting it’s just “Alliance playing gud” whenever some Alliance player reports winning in AV here on the forum, but the reason you keep losing is always because of the map, like the map has any relevance whatsoever. PvP is what decides the outcome, always.
Well no, but we have good solid statistics about raiders and that is almost exactly 50/50. That’s not counting lowlvls and players not raiding and ofc it’s not 50/50 that play battlegrounds out of those.
Whatever makes the queue very long in AV is not about faction balance anyway. That’s my point.
What’s funny is that, unless the population figures had magically changed drastically in just 2 months’ time, then the population split was close to equal at the start of AV too. Yet Horde were the ones with much longer queue times after the first few days.
One major difference there was Horde having rampaged on most realms and traumatized the Alliance in the WPvP phase which is why Blizzard rolled out BGs early to alleviate the situation, and the interest in PvP was clearly different from the start.
I get your point with x-realm but back in vanilla the game was new and there wasn’t guides on how to maximize everything like there is now which combine that with x-realm makes the PvP experience detrimental.
PvP doesn’t always 100% decide the outcome I mean look at Allience defending ibgy for example say 30 Allience are defending the point and 15 horde attacking .
Allience smash the 15 horde but a few die and every death Allience side will put them at the top of the map respawning 10 at a time with no chance to reinforce as travel time is well over 2 minutes while horde respawns in cave 20 seconds away 20 a time and can get back into fight before Allience can Rez or a healer/DPS mana regen.
Let’s Reverse that scenario just say example Allience will have ibgy and 30 horde defend shgy each death
They Rez in the cave 20 at a time which the rezers complete halts the Allience push with respawn advantage
While the defenders at sh can aoe the choke point and have a high ground advantage
The area is so tight you can literally aoe that whole choke which Allience needs to get past to recapture as soon as sh is lost its game over every death from the sh hill puts the Allience in a 10 man respawn with over 1 minute to rejoin the fight so horde have ample time to Rez and drink.
Travel time and respawn does infact give an advantage in a PvP fight and that’s not including the advantages of Lok vs ivus the fact Lok gets stronger each kill make ivus a joke the spots where you summon them are more convenient for horde as well.
yes I know Allience bunkers are harder to capture than Horde towers but one of our bunkers is completely useless position for archers attacking the horde. The bridge is the only advantages and the corner after the bridge but by that point the game is lost no chance to recapture shgy once it’s lost completely
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And Alliance doesn’t have to deal with those pesky swarms of NPCs in the base like the Horde needs to, in order to get to the base GY.
Alliance doesn’t need to run as far as Horde does to the first clash, when dying. So that’s 100% decided with PvP, where Alliance even have the advantage.
Alliance resurrects closer to fights near SP GY before SP GY is assaulted, compared to Horde who needs to run all the way from SH GY. That’s also decided with PvP.
I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean. English, please.
See, even you can point out asymmetrical balance examples. Whereas in Alliance have advantages where Horde doesn’t, and Horde have advantages where Alliance doesn’t. Perfect symmetry is boring af. It’s just one side suffering from mindset issues who doesn’t even put up proper fights most of the time by utilizing their advantages to the max.
Also, keep in mind, the first clash is indicative of everything. Since it shows which side carries the greater “PvP ability” for lack of a better term.
Because you can’t understand it doesn’t make it less true. The Allience advantages that your explaining doesn’t even transition to a win having the advantages where it counts and how big that advantage is that’s what matters and it’s shown with the abysmal win rate one side has.
You talk about NPC guards cmon those are a joke to deal with the horde guards attack us running up the ramp into horde base as well just the same. your Gy even has an elite on it which ours doesn’t but that doesn’t matter too much as these weigh very little in an outcome. Saying we Rez at sp when defending sp when we have it counts for any Gy on both sides.
The fact if the matter is ibgy and shgy are the only graveyards that matter and transition the game to a win or lose and those two are where the horde have the largest advantages.
soon as ShGy is taken the game is lost for allience it is that simple because it’s almost impossible to take back because of travel distance the tight choke and if by a miracle we retake it only resets the whole battleground as you got to push ibgy the other gy that matters and guess what horde have the respawn advantage there as well.
All I gotta say enjoy your queue time it’s only going to get worse
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Simply put: You’re saying the ability to kill your opponent faster than they kill you is what matters most. Or in other words, PvP decides the outcome. As simple as that.
And you do realise for 20 horde to resurrect in the cave, you need to have killed 20 horde within 30 seconds, right?
Yes ofc it matters as long as healers have mana and fights are determined by numbers if you can get those numbers to the right position faster than the other faction can get there and add the time you can mana regen it gives you an advantage and fact some chokes are tight u can slow an entire advancing party and killing 20 horde with 30 Allience in 30 seconds is completely plausible and when they die they are not 100% going to wait the full 30 seconds.
Look at it like movie 300 you can hold the choke with smaller numbers.
You seem to think the game is based on rock paper scissors but completely ignore everything else that is a factor
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Someone might have already said it but even if the overall ratio on all servers are 50/50. I can say almost half of the allie players dont bother go PvP. Its a PvE faction for most.
You haven’t understood anything I’ve said whatsoever if that’s what you think I’ve been saying.
Punctuation is a thing.
You think they’re back in the fight as soon as they ress? You think everyone runs on the same speed of mounts? You think everyone jumps into the fight again as soon as they get back? You think Alliance don’t have time to get mana back, if you have the ability to kill 20 hordes in under 30 seconds each wave?
All it comes down to is not dying faster than your opponents.
And you know, you keep ignoring this point, but Alliance resurrects closer to the first clash. So by your definition of “map advantage”, you should almost always be winning the first clash. Yet you don’t.
Why is that? Is it because… It doesn’t determine the outcome? That PvP is what decides who wins? Hmm?
I also said before that the horde AV meta of “let’s deny the alliance any kind of bonus honor” will backfire and make alliance players only not que AV again and therefore make ur que times longer.
But well surprised pikachu face I guess
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Yes all those things matter but will effect both sides and no Allience don’t have the time to drink defending ibgy if you have to Rez someone or are oom when you drink the horde will actually be back in time for the next attack wave before your topped off. which is not the same for allience in shgy but then again you will completely ignore that factor as you said its it’s only PvP that matters even tho one side has it more easy.
You talk about the Allience first clash advantage have you even looked at the map your start position is halfway up the map the first clash is one of 4 things
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side of Belinda hut where both sides are staggered but the flanksplits up the allience nobody has an advantage here as horde will Die back at shgy and wipe the split Allience resets the fight
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horde are waiting to pick players advancing to ibgy horde advantage.
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the Allience wait on shgy to pick off advancing horde Allience advantage.
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Allience hide and both pass eachother capturing each others Gy horde advantage with cave respawn.
First 3 events don’t transition to capturing a graveyard 100% mostly just resets the encounter until one side sneaks past or wins.
As I said in my first post map advantages plus honor system is the reason why you don’t get Allience queuing and it will only get worse it’s not winning PvP that you claim which is causing these abysmal win rate look at other symmetrical battlegrounds
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Sorry, but your English isn’t on a level where it can be properly understood. I really don’t have any idea what you said in a few places.
Anyway, to summarize:
According to your definition of map advantage, and how much significance you claim it carries, it should therefore be nigh impossible for Horde to ever cross mid since past mid there are a lot of Alliance NPCs & elites, and Alliance have a closer graveyard.
According to your definition, the only chance Horde would have would be to secure SF GY first before moving up.
Yet because the “PvP ability” tends to be so skewed towards only one side, this is almost never the case. Horde can almost always just rush up past mid and ignore disadvantages, because the Alliance aren’t putting up enough of a fight to begin with.
Thus, PvP is what decides the BG. And this is not something new. It has always been like this ever since the premade exploits got shut down. Which can be explained with:
I know a way to get near instant queue times. It’s a little thing called R E R O L L A L L I A N C E
Of course most Horde players don’t see this as an option because the very reason they chose their faction is the PvP advantages that made Alliance stop bothering with AV in the first place.
This guy, still trying to convince people AV is balanced, still doing it from a irrelevant retail character so people won’t call him out in game.
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I believe less than 1% alliance que AV to play it (mostly for rep) and another 1-2% que to leech afk, semi-afk, botting.
So I think max 3% of alliance playerbase queuing AV
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You understand just fine in what I’m saying your just trying to insult me because you have no counter argument.
The answer to your question is no.Field of strife is a huge area with muliple places to pass. There is 3 at Allience side with 1 place to pass horde side and I don’t see any Allience NPCs destroying players in middle of the field of strife there is a few Allience side and a few horde side they are hardly a factor here and if one side has entire team defending a ibgy or shgy at the start when they own it nobody wins without summoning the bosses.
SF Gy helps horde capture shgy if they have it.Allience side it helps very little to push onto ibgy as distance is similar and means an extra graveyard to try to defend.
PvP is not the reason why Allience have gave up on this battleground you are so deluded
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No, you really don’t make sense sometimes. Like, at all. You’re not exactly fluent in English, you know?
But this is going around in circles (yet again) so I’ll just borrow one of the arguments the Alliance premaders used to rely on before the hotfixes:
Obviously Blizzard agrees with me, otherwise they would’ve done something about it already.
Which is ironic since the premade exploits did get mitigated in the hotfixes that came a while after that, but anyway, there you go.
Also, you do realise that if your argument that the map design has ANYTHING to do with win rates, then you should see a similar effect globally?
Now, here’s a hypothetical that fits in more with reality:
What if Blizzard, with access to all their server statistics, only sees such a skewed win rate in NA and EU?
What if they don’t see such a skewed win rate on their Asian realms?
It’d nullify your argument that map design has anything to do with it.
Yet nobody ever seems to mention the win rates on the Asian realms even though I’m sure there are some bound to understand the languages on Asian realms, who also plays here on EU realms.
Another way to think of it is that surely they would’ve done something by now if they saw the same win rates mimicked on the Asian realms, right?
So since they haven’t done anything, they probably don’t see it as being justified in the server statistics.