made me realize how this game is totally dying without any hope to revive. It s just a silent death. In pvp.
At 1.5-1.6 every one i met in enemy team was glad, elite or legend. Every edited by moderator one. No exception.
Game has confined itself to a pool of elitistic players, streamers or not, who actually destroy the pvp scene, since no new player could afford this discrepancy in skill and experience. There is no new blood anymore and I must admit, as a casual for years, i wish the game to die.
And all these elit players to lose everything they have invested in it. Cause while they know how bad the game is, how bad is for new players to join and enjoy, they just sit on their throne and make nothing at all.
To push blizzard to the right direction. To demand. To organize boycotts and make relative suggestions. Threatening this company to make things better.
No, they want to be kings. And queens. Even for just one more day.
Rome was not built in one day, get back there to the grind learn from your mistakes, analyze your gameplay, positioning is key and awareness to your team mates is paramount, the only way to get better is to keep practising and learning from your mistakes, be sure to have your talents switched accordingly depending on your enemy team’s comp and check on youtube or streamers, such as Lontar, who is a very good healer to learn from.
It’s not just arena, in Blitz you have Warlords in every other match at 1500 rating too. They just enjoy pwning noobs and don’t care what it does to the game.
Can confirm BG blitz means nothing, im 2.9k mmr on enhancement shaman and like 1800-1900 CR n i treat blitz like random bg´s. Theres nothing competitive about it. I have a 75% winrate through sheer luck as outside of duoq theres no way to actually noticably impact the outcome of games. Last season i hit 3200 MMR in blitz while trying to farm conquest and learn a new spec.
As for arena yes 2v2 n 3v3 will die because they are not approachable gamemodes for new players. No one wants to interact with WoW´s PvP playerbase which is why Soloq is the only alternative to keeping PvP alive as a whole.
Problem is that the people who had exclusive rights to arena for two decades care more about feeding a superiority complex than they do about the gamemodes health n as such keep suggesting deleting shuffle, blitz n what not to funnel people back into their prefered gamemode as a means to feel relevant again.
In the end of the day wow PvP is on borrowed time due to lack of dev attention n effort paired with unaddressed major flaws such as premade abuse n what not that is now ruining BG´s aswell so soon there will simply be no active PvP platform at all.
Its not players fault if they decided to add separate modes that share rewards with all and are played with rating system affected by participation in each modes separately. Its not players fault either if system allow ppl to smurf lower mmr they should be in. Its all by this video games design and shuffles and blitz were even added on the game in a manner that without doing any changes on how the rating system works arenas were obviously going to become deflated. Players have no hand in any of this. The fault is entirely on design, customers have no power over the products designs they just purchase right to play it.
Well, 2v2 has always been deflated and now the whole arena is severely deflated. Only mode that is currently played by all is blitz and its inflated cause it. Though blizz didnt reset mmr so there will be some climbing to be done without last seasons mmr
Your problem is that you care about such things. If someone is at 1600 he is 1600 at the moment. He might be a glad Warrior but as Warlock he is at 1600 - simple as that. I played few 2s this season and I’m at 1800 but my mmr is 2100-2200. And yes I met glads at 1600 because my mmr was way higher. Maybe that’s also the case.
I hope it never happen and the sad truth is that they are dying because top players “kidnapped” the idea of solo queue. As Savix and many other solo queue supporting wow influencers called solo queue was meant for people who came back to the game after long break, for these trying off meta specs, for these who try to gear mid season. The purpose of solo queue was to be able to play 2s or 3s by just queuing and not sitting hours in LFG. It’s purpose was that you could queue and find players for your friend list. Maybe you vibed with someone playing together and you decide to play premade session next time. Maybe you could play more with this healer because you queue at the same times. All we needed was something like WoD skirms but with rating. Instead Blizzard as always went for feedback to top rank 1 players and they ended up with 6 rounds abomination that has nothing to do with 3s. It has different dampening, many classes play different stats in shuffle and 3s not to mention different builds. It’s completely different bracket.
While in 3s with slower pace you could have few good games without voice. In solo shuffle instead of admiring other players everyone is frustrated on people paired with. Due to insanely fast stacking dampening every CD use is 10x more important and overlaps are way more common. In such environment people get toxic even these who normally aren’t. I know people who never got reported in their life before solo shuffle getting bans for 10 days. And guess who is happy of solo shuffle? Top players who are streamers because in the past if they wanted to stream their games they had few hours window when everybody is queuing. Right now they can stream solo shuffle and have content outside of peak hours. The problem is that solo shuffle wasn’t meant for them. Every top player has vast friends list of other top players and can play whatever comp he wants in the ladder. Don’t get me wrong. I have my friend list and if I want to play I can every day and I have no problems with finding partners but many people do and their problems weren’t solved. In fact even LFG is even more empty… so these who wanted to play 3s have to wait even more time.
While I have nothing against top players. This game will not survive if there won’t be an influx of new players. There is 0 chance for it. I like watching Raiku, Whaazz and others but instead of playing shuffle they can gear alt on stream like they did in SL. Instead we have people who try PvP and cannot find the partners and whenever they actually do they meet glads like it’s mentioned here. The pool of players is smaller and smaller so these “glads” became 1600 players.
Same thing I can say about Skirms. They were great pre-Cata and in WoD. You could queue for 2v2 and 3v3 skirms separately and practice new spec/practice when teammates were offline at the moment. It was also pretty good source of honor in WoD. While I’m fan of Blizzard listening to people on forums. I have 0 idea why they listened to random people crying that with playing Warrior/DK or other nonsense 2s comp they cannot beat a healer. So Blizzard made 1 Skirms queue where you either play 2x dps 2s or 3s with the healer. Again like in case of solo shuffle 2v2 skirms have nothing to do with real 2v2. You aren’t practicing anything there. The chance that as Arms/Unh you meet WW/Havoc in 2s is astronomically low. Healers are literally discriminated in terms of skirms. Tanks aren’t excluded from 2s skirms but healers are. Tell me where are new healers going to practice? It’s natural progression for a player to start with 2v2 bracket as a healer where less things happen and then move to 3v3. Also fact that there is no rating makes it less stressful for a fresh healer. In WoD I made my first MW Monk and I started with 2v2 skirms. Sadly new healers don’t have such chance now. They need to rely on fact that someone will play 2s with them and be patient. If for whatever reason someone as a fresh healer decides to firstly queue skirm he will wait in long queue but then he is thrown on deep waters where he cannot handle awarness and most likely get flamed. Not to mention learning in solo shuffle. This must be horrific experience. I don’t get it - who benefits of the current skirmish form? Why do skirmishes look like this. I’ll tell you anegdote that may show you the degeneracy of the current for community. I made a topic in the past on NA forums advocating for bringing back old skirms. The argument I got against it literally killed my soul. “Nah I don’t want healers back in skirms because without healers it’s faster to do a weekly 1000 honor quest”. The community doesn’t care that there are no healers they just need to do everything efficiently… No wonders healers queues are long in RSS and there is hard to find a healer if they get such treatment. You can add 10 other healers titles and it won’t change anything when fundaments are damn broken.
Also fun fact. When Blizzard tells you that normal solo queue was impossible to implement. What the hell were skirmishes then? They had hidden MMR in them. That was solo queue we asked for just add rating on top…
Since shuffle I have not tried to talk in friends to play wow. I imagine its same for a lot of players. I just join SS, watch YouTube and I get my 3 games per evening.
SS is mehh… something aint right with that bracket.
To be honest healers has received special treatment for quite some time now, they have never been stronger than they are now.
In the past healers were perfectly viable kill targets which is no longer the case at all. If you want to play 2v2 you can just do so in the real gamemode, its perfectly fine to practice in ranked. I dont want healers in 2v2 skirms either.
Ok then, could you explain me then why you don’t want them? And second question what’s the purpose of such “skirmish” in the game if it doesn’t emulate 2v2 environment any any way. The chance that Unh/Ele meets Havoc/Fire Mage in 2v2s is lesser than 5% above 1000 mmr.
Also Sam - did you ever play healer? Because I agree healers are the strongest they’ve ever been. In Cata 1 Mortal Strike was enough for healer to be in danger but if there are no healers there are no 3v3s and no Solo Shuffles. You need them and there is still a shortage of them.
Healing is way more stressful than dpsing and I don’t blame new players that they feel pushed away from healing after their first attempts. Providing them a training ground would definetely help.
I bet you also don’t like to wait 45 min. in Solo Shuffle queue. So why don’t you do anything to fix it?
Well its quite simple, in 2v2 healer spa vs dps-dps, there is virtually no way for the healer-dps to actually lose. Either they need to be substantially nerfed which healers wont enjoy either or they will auto win.
Yes i have played healer, although its ages ago back in uhh mop or so. Back then you had to watch your own healthbar though. In modern wow you have a bad hpriest sitting afk getting tunneled in bgs by 6 people b his hp isnt moving.
Catering to healers isnt going to work either. If people dont want to play healer the solution isnt to make them op or bribe them, rather make everyone else less dependent on them. In bgs they already have complete dictatorship to the point where they decide 90% of all games. Queing into an auto lose to give someone else a feel good moment isnt good gameplay. If gameplay doesnt play a role we might aswell let people level with skirms aswell n put lvl 10s with max lvls.
2v2 isnt considered competitive in the first place so just practice in real 2s if you want to play healer n dps. I find it to be the most stale form of pvp the game has to offer.
But that’s how 2v2s are in years. Blame the game designers not healers my friend. Also what is the purpose then of having “training ground” that is nothing like real 2v2s.
Trust me that playing healer with the current pace of the game is way more stressful because you literally have to pump healing all the time. People can die in 1 interrupt or DRed CC. MoP was super chill compared to it.
Agree. Then maybe the problem isn’t healer’s strength but the fact that getting into healing is 10x harder because of no real training ground since Legion change to Skirms.
Also spending 45 min. in the queue isn’t good gameplay…
That’s cool. I don’t mind your opinion however it’s where most of us began our arena journey. As a rookie healer you play 2s first to learn how to use your toolkit in environment where less things happen. Then when you are comfortable you can try 3s that require more awarness. Staring with 3s would be a disaster and extremely unfun experience to someone who created a healer. Not to mention the hardest for healer - solo shuffle.
So Sam I have next two questions. How often do you queue Skirms outside of a week where there are weekly quests for them? And 2nd one. If providing training ground for healers isn’t a good solution how would you solve the healers shortage? Do you have a better solution?
Healer shortage isnt due to lack of training ground, bgs would be about as much practice as healer dps into double dps. By definition, free wins isnt practice. Its just a feel good kind of deal, you also dont need much practice for 2s since its extremely slow phases.
No healing isnt more stressful today in 2s. Not being a viable kill target paired with all instants saw to that. In mop all healers had to cast, it is true that dmg is more spiky but healing is even more so, in mop you had scenarios where you had to spam hardcasts to keep someone up.
In mop you had to hardcast n be weary of swaps, in some matchups you were straight up trained.
I play skirms once in a while, i dont particularly like 2v2 so i highly prefer 3v3 skirms. But its fast ques.
I dont really get it though, whats stopping you from practicing in real 2s? Its not like you are warming up for a tournament. Just keep queing.
Healers have gotten so spoiled from being bribed due to participation issues causing long ques.
Nonsense. BG healing has completely different profile you use different talents and most of the times you have completely different healing breakdown.
How do you know if you don’t heal since MoP. Indeed it is way more stressful because most of the healers still cast - not as much as in MoP but still. Holy Priests still cast Flash Heals, R Druids still have to Regrowth.
Then why are you against bringing old skirms. You’d be able to only queue 3v3 skirms. Where do you have cons?
Me nothing. But for a new player rating adds unnecessary stress. And makes people feel uncomfortable.
Still you have a shortage of them. Without healers you cannot play the game. Deal with it.
Because waiting for 45 min. and playing 3 shuffles in 3 hours is better.
Because we cant split up the playerbase anymore or all ques will be 45 minutes.
Getting free wins with no effort isnt practice, if anything 3s would be the real practice anyways. If you find healing 2s stressful in modern wow i dont know What to tell you. Nothing dies till deep dampening. Double dps has no ways of surviving intill deep dampening so the healer dps wins by default which is why we never see double dps in 2s.
If people are stressed about queing 2s thats fine, but those people wont shorten quetimes for anyone anyways. That argument goes against itself anyways, pushing people into rated modes is exactly how to shorten quetimes. They have the option to just que 2s, demanding to have an entire gamemode changed so they can play… A gamemode that already exist is just odd.
Just stop looking at ratings n que the crap you want to play.
Wow isnt going to get a noticeable increase in playerbase no matter what, game doesnt have any appeal to new players.
But why do you care more about obsolete double dps that doesn’t matter in rated environment more than healers that we have shortage of?
And no. Starting with 3s is an absolutely mental arena. I think you forgot when you started playing this game. You play for so long that you mentioned that you know how healing works because you healed in MoP. Dude it was 2012. Back then there was not TikTok, Obama was the president of United States and Queen Elisabeth still was alive and Crimea was still Ukrainian. Do you know how far in the past it was? Imagine that new player might get stressed of healing 3s, solo shuffle or straight into ranked games. In no game doesn’t matter if it’s League, Dota, CS, Valorant or anything else you aren’t forced to play ranked games to learn. In fact you have unranked mode that mirrors ranked one. I don’t get it why is it so hard to understand that many people are hitting the wall when they want to try PvP. Venruki actually questioned few PvE players who tried PvP and that was exactly the reason why they tried once and then got pushed of.
It’s funny how people who are against any changes are the same who cry about glads at 1500 and long solo shuffle queues.
I have no issues with glads at 1500. If they are at 1500 they are either doing placement games or have terrible mmr at which point they likely are where they belong.
The rating distribution issue is a whole other topic.
Im hugely in favour of change if i see it as healthy. I am however fundamentally against changes that caters to a minority at the expense of a majority. There are far more dps players queing skirms than there are healers, people dont want to autolose games with no player agency involved. Besides that tons of people have requested 2v2 dps rated n im against that aswell for the same reason i previously mentioned. It seperates the playerbase even more.
We cant all have our custom gamemodes.
I think soloq gamemodes will entirely replace the premade arenas long term due to being more approachable. I think its a shame to see 3s die but i dont think it should be artificially kept alive on permanent life support either.
I do skirms from time to time, mostly when waiting in que for something else.
It doesnt matter what group i belong to, a majority is a majority, dps players in this case n yea im a dps player if thats what youre asking. Enhancement shaman if you want even more details that doesnt serve a purpose.
Healers already have several instaque gamemodes, dps are the ones waiting, skirms are generally played by people waiting in que, doing daily win or weekly quest. But sure, allow healers to que skirm 2s n slap them with 70% starting dampening that doesnt apply to dps specs n they get realistic practice because 2s games dont even start till that point.
learn from your mistakes, analyze your gameplay, positioning is key and awareness to your team mates is paramount, the only way to get better is to keep practising and learning from your mistakes, be sure to have your talents switched accordingly depending on your enemy team’s comp and check on youtube or streamers, such as Lontar, who is a very good healer to learn from.