Absolutely. But its not as 50/50 as you say it is.
It would be pure vice-versa if the M+ logs actually meant something within the M+ context. Then you could argue that Raid logs are for Raid performance. And M+ logs are for M+ performance.
But the reality is that M+ logs are garbage. You cannot judge anything by what they say, and in fact, RIO is a much better metric to asses the quality of a player than logs.
Simply put, in a 5 man content so much of your “performance” is determined by the actions of the other 4 players that whatever parses you get there mean nothing.
As a DD, you might get 20% parse in a dungeon and still be top 1 in DPS (in that dungeon) and be top 1 in interrupts and CC. The only reason that player got 20% parse is because the tank chose a route and tempo that dosent align perfectly well with his CDs.
Or that particular comp he ran with did not have a priest casting PI on him. PI being much, much more valuable in a 5 man content than in a 20 man content.
And in the case of healers its particularly ridiculous. If the team actually does a good job playing (lots of kicks, lots of DD and packs melt, ect… ) the healer will have really low parses.
Basically. Raid logs are only for raids. Where in a 10 minute fight of 20 people a player’s performance is averaged enough to be condensed to a single number.
If you have a DH tank, and a Shaman that coordinate their stops and CCs the pack literally does nothing. All DDs simply turret DPS and dont have to worry about any mechanics.
And will get 90% parses. Especially for the one receiving PI, and/or the one that spent 500g on a power potion.
If you do not play with those specs, and/or the DH and Shaman do not coordinate their AoE stuns, the DDs will be forced to move.
But since parses are compared with respect to “the best” (the guy that was turret DDing) they will at BEST get 60% or 70% parses. Even 50% if they don’t get PI and/or spend 500g.
Does any of this answer your question : Can this particular individual do mechanics Y/N? Well… no. It dosent.
That is ONE example I can give you. TLDR WoW Logs from M+ mean absolute nothing at all. Might as well play roulette at that point.
In raids they do mean something. But not in M+. And DEFENETLY not in PuG environments.
First pull of the Priory you need to murder knight or it will murder you. If you’re padding aoe then it’ll work only in lower keys. I’m gonna say that most high keys are really tough because dps can’t click their buttons Just to be clear I’m not saying I don’t do mistakes but people check logs A LOT in higher keys.
First, yes technically you have to focus on the knight. But the other 20 or so mobs also do mechanics that you have to deal with. Or not. Depending on how other people do that pack.
So its not about padding dps. Even if you funnel DPS or do ST DPS its 100x easier and more effective if the CC chain is done to perfection and all you have to do is patchwerk DD the knight down. And the parses will show that as a result.
Second. Yes. People check out their logs. I check my own logs. To improve.
But that is because you check your own performance and you are aware of the context. You knew where it went good, where it went bad, ect… What you are absolutely not doing is looking at parses or overall DPS. Which is what people do when they look at WCLogs.
But I think the way they work in wow is pretty negative. There are already a bunch of pointless filters that stop people from getting into a group (tank is green instead of purple / the dps has only timed 4’s and they dare to sign up for a 5 etc).
Now we’re adding this garbo and wowop.io and other tools that will add up to a more miserable experience.
The sweaties making this crap should realise just because you can make a tool, it doesn’t mean you should.
In most instances you need to have timed an 8 to be accepted for a 4, the elephant in the room being that in order for this to happen is you need invites for 4’s, 5’s etc.
Generally me personally I only really start filtering if I need something done in 20 without hiccups due to irl, or if its a 10 I want to try and push for port or an 11.
Other than that I try and give people a fair shout. Wished others would.
I don’t think it will get banned but I do understand the upset about the addon.
The kinds of groups that were already checking for logs, sure this is a great convenience but like we’ve seen with M+ and Rio, people will apply it where it has no bearing. Like when people think you need a meta comp, a BL, a CR etc all for a +5. When that kind of thing has no bearing until you’re into pushing high key territory.
The average player in the WoW community will absolutely apply this where it’s not needed and that’s why it’s receiving the backlash it is. It’s going to make the average Joe’s experience worse. I don’t think the high end players understand that, at least not judging by comments I’ve seen on twitter.
People can just make their own groups. I can’t be upset if I, a grey parsing noob can only get other grey parsing noobs to show up in my group.
It’s like the meta, non meta people can see I’m not meta and they can sign up knowing it’s not “Meta only divine level blasters +3”
It says in the article it hides parses until after a certain amount of kills. So as I have no kills I wouldn’t even use it. I already know everyone else has at least the same experience as I do.
Is it so bad that we incentivize a “bring the player, not the class” mentality?
Sure, people may use it horribly and look for orange parses for their normal raid, but they’ll also have to deal with forming a raid group for 3 hours if they’re that picky.
I just don’t see how it’s bad to promote good gameplay and reward it. Is it because grey parsers should still be given the chance to be carried for free and drag everyone else in the group down?
Yeah no. If you play M+ with monitor turned on, and keyboard plugged in - you will get at least blue parses without a single drop of sweat.
Main metric used by M+ parses are score points which are dependent on whole group.
Other options are unusable due to ever-changing nature of each M+ run. Especially damage and damage to bosses because DPS pad / DPS overall play is useless in keys that matter. It is single target and low target cleave that times the keys due to extreme amount of boss and big mobs’ health pools.
Well I wouldn’t use it at all, so it doesn’t bother me. I wouldn’t be upset if people didn’t want to play with me based on them not wanting to for any reason.
I am unsure of how this promotes and rewards good game play though ?
Let us leave M+ out of this scenario (I think we can all agree applying raid logs to M+ is neither good or applicable).
So focusing solely on raid, people will want to raise their average. To do so means every time they are in there they have to focus more on doing dps than mechanics (cause once you focus mechanics your average goes down, off course I am talking about people doing mechs and over compensating for others, which will and already does happen).
So the people picking up the slack on mechanics lose on the avg, while those that ignore them gain and get rewarded, and off course I mean this in the context of an avg group, not a “Quick Zerg 1 shot” groups that nuke bosses inside of 120 seconds.
People are most definitely looking at dps parses from dungeons, lol. 100%. It doesn’t happen all the time but it happens fairly often. DPS players are legit key assassins in higher keys cos they don’t know how to optimize their cd usage and rotation.
High parses in M+ == coordinated teams. Not sure why people would be such idiots as to take a low PuG parse (even in high keys) and conclude that that player is somehow bad or incapable.
And for the record, I am talking about looking at parses to asses if some player you dont know is good or not. I am not talking about looking at WCLogs to improve your own performance. That is something everyone should do IMO.
Sure, some may slack in mechanics to some extent, but I’m fairly inclined to believe both the raid leader and the people themselves want the boss killed, so they can’t slack too much. You also don’t fall behind that hard by actually doing the mechanics, but sure you’ll drop a few points.
Let’s also not act like this addon will be the majorly determing metric when progging mythic raids, it’ll mostly be used for hc farm runs.
If they actually has a clue about how to play they’ll be able to parse just fine whilst doing mechanics.
Now your trying to apply the addon to guild groups, which is not where this will be used.
In pugs, yes it is unreal how many people focus 100% on dps and ignoring mechanics. I have a raid team, but I also pug on alts and I am left picking up their slack.
And yes this addon will for a lot of people dictate if a person gets an invite. and because the parse req will go up and up, the focus for dps goes up to try and keep up with that requirement.
Let us not pretend like the WoW community does not overdo things and is somehow perfect in how they apply logic. Because in most instances logic is what is missing while they blindly follow what an addon or their fav streamer tells them.
Just to be clear I’m not saying I don’t do mistakes but people check logs A LOT in higher keys.
