The only parts of wow I consider like a job are the grinds I’ve had to do for AP in both Legion and BfA. In Legion in particular I felt very burnt out. Endless farms are not a good part of the game IMO.
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dude if you used the time you wasted on fighting rio in this thread on pushing keys you’d be highest rio player in the world right now.
PS: one of my favourite tunes on this tuesday afternoon for the most sophisticated forum users with good taste in music
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Do not forget this stupid cloak of endless grind. I will have nightmares of 8.3 each time I cross Uldum or Vale now
I don’t mind things that have an end, we have had all sorts of grinds in the game but they have a conclusion.
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I fail to see the point.
In PVP games you fight vs other players so the difficulty depends on their skill / gear. Therefore those other players and your teammates better have the same rating that you do, because that’s the measure of how difficult a team you can fight.
In PVE games you fight vs mobs so the difficulty depends on their level which translates into stats and abilities. Therefore those mobs and your teammates better have the same rating as you do, because that’s the measure of how difficult an encounter you can do.
I don’t get what you are seeing as the breaking difference. That in PVE the set of abilities is ever changing? But in PVP the setups and strategies are also ever changing. One season it’s A, another it’s B. With things like essences even abilities are changing over time, as people get more, some abilities become used more and others less.
If you are worried about the queue allowing people to enter a dungeon they have never been on, require that they do it on heroic. It’s a side issue. As I said, part of the rating could easily be what you completed. It’s just that there will be other parts, that there will be a split between visible and invisible portions, that there will be adjustments, etc. All the things that differentiate a good rating system from an amateur hack like RIO.
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Yes but this one ended (almost) when the content itself ended too, so I find quite comparable ( especially at the beginning where any entry mattered)
And the catchup mechanic was way too late & too pricey.
Visions also lack replayability and are now boring 20mn waste of time semi afk
But they uses to be very cool. I really loved my first 5mask.
Players are removed at all levels of the pyramid.
The information you take from the addon, is still up to the group leader to use it properly.
It doesnt tell you the complete story, it only tells you the key levels done and puts a score to it.
Ilvl wont tell you enough so you need more info.
Groups can set their own requirements and if a +2 key group requires 5k rio score, tough luck but thats their choice.
If they want a holy paladin in another group with just 1200 score vs Praetorian with 2000 score, tough luck.
Removing rio or armory wont change the fact there is still more supply than demand on many keys. And requirements to join said groups doing keys vary per group.
Rio or armory are part of influencing that decision but wont be all of it,
If 5 druids apply with the same rio score, you can still only take one.
If you have 25 dps applicants with the same score, you can still only pick 3 of them.
If you would remove rio and armory, and use ilvl as you preach, you will pick the highest ilvl but they might have no experience in that key at all.
Groups are always made with the thought of: what worka best for us.
Tank / healer combo’s for example and also many people like certain classes to get certain buffs or to deal with affixes easier.
Actually no, removing armory (which would remove RIO as well) will change the supply-demand ratios.
I don’t preach ilvl, I merely say that RIO score is about the same garbage as ilvl. I explained why above (way above). What I preach is an auto rated solo queue.
People really ought to start logging their m+ runs. I’m joining groups on my hunter and end up with 2 other dps like this so often:
Wish I could know that these people can’t do any damage despite having gear, before the run. They’re not even close to what they can do per sims.
No it wont.
Make a M+ group for any keylvl and within minutes you have 20-30 dps signed up.
A few healers who signed up and tanks are always sought after.
Removing a tool that helps create m+ groups wont change the fact people enjoy the content a lot and like to challenge themselves.
Its also nice you skipped over the rest of my post explaining the issue with your examples.
That is obviously another thing 
I want to know how many ticks people splat on Cragmaw, how many interrupts they have on snakes, if they stay at +30 yards on 1st boss freehold and catch and dodge the crap, do they los on the fence? etc. 
Conjecture conjecture conjecture conjecture. There are no statistics to back either way and anyone can fairly say that “it seems more likely that the majority of the playerbase intent on doing M+ is not at the bottom”.
That has no bearing on why an all-encompassing score like RIO is going to be bad though. You’re allowed to have more than one rating.
RIO just takes your best run and converts it into a score, because at the end of the day people want to know that you’ve actually completed a high key in a good time, not that “my group had a bad tank so I couldn’t do a +12”, then do another +12 where you tank isn’t as bad, the same excuses made right now are going to be made with the introduction of solo queue. In fact, there’s going to be more people blaming the system for matching them with low ranked players.
I mean, then the benchmark for a good player is only going to shift. If 3k is good right now and the solo queue system brings everyone to 3k then “good” is going to become 3.5k. Getting 1.5k in Legion was considered pretty good, now anyone can get 1.5k, it’s all relative.
And it’s not as if you can’t just power through +10s +15s right now. Just bump your own key up to a +12 and knock it back down to a +12 after completion and repeat, unless you want your performance in like 3 dungeons to determine your skill holistically, in which case that would make for an even more unbalanced system than RIO.
and increase the chances of depleting keys.
A solo queue might work, but it doesn’t contradict with RIO, and it also probably isn’t worth the time to develop over other more glaring issues.
Yeah you got a point, and thats an issue.
But thats why everyone in here defending rio keeps saying:
the score doesnt tell the whole story
So yeah, high scored dps or tanks or healers not being able to play the key lvl their score is based upon.
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The current supply-demand ratios are based on there being an addon. The demand for roles that are slightly rarer than they should be is artificially inflated. Once you remove the addon, this can go away.
Regarding the rest of your post explaining the issue with my examples:
Yes, RIO doesn’t tell a complete story, but people use it as a guide for rejecting / accepting as if it does. It’s the majority of people who use it that way, too, see the passage about the pyramid, this only changes at the top and the top is low volume compared to the rest.
I said that I don’t preach ilvl, just saying that RIO is about the same garbage.
What else did I miss?
Which factors? The dungeon and it’s difficulty and balance compared to the other dungeons? The role you’re playing? The class you’re playng? The spec you’re playing? How well you’re performing? How would you even measure pefromance such a complex thing as in M+? Would other people’s rating be taken into account? If so, would it be role, class or spec based? Would item level be considered? Would stats be considered?
How would you calculate the rating so that it’s faster than rio? Would you keep gaining the same amount of rating regardless of the dungeon you’re doing, even if you just spam one dungeon over and over, compared to someone who does more than just one? Would there be streaks? Would you lose rating as DPS/healer if your tank is pepega?
This is the only thing that would actually work because it would naturally have to ignore class/spec. But then you have extreme variance between group effectiveness. Imagine you get a boomie, a demo lock and a shadow priest in Shrine. Good luck finishing the dungeon in time… then you could also get a rogue, a DH and a BM hunter with a prot warrior, you could snap things around, interupt and CC everything, overall making the dungeon a LOT easier.
Wat?
10chars
So now we’re blaming the lack of tanks on rio too?
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It’s an educated guess fueled by some numbers like total player participation in M+ (which is not terribly high), its structure, etc.
That a solo-queue in other games is always much bigger than a team queue does not mean that the same would happen in WoW? Really? I am sorry, but no. The circumstances are similar so things will behave as they always do. The addition of a solo queue to the current team queue will absolutely result in many more people doing M+. This is absolutely undisputable.
There are multiple problems with RIO and the worst one is that the rejection / acceptance is performed by players, not automatically.
No. Ratings will quickly get you to the point where you are paired with people of a similar capability. By design, they will keep you on the edge of the content you are capable of doing. You will fail the constant X% of time with X being around 50%.
Yep. The playerbase is really judgemental, anyone who uses RIO as a semi-deterministic factor to find decent players for keys they want to finish with relative ease gets judged for being “elitist” by hyper casual players.
Little bits of information like “I got rejected from a group that says “+24 UR IN TIME” it must be RIO’s fault” really does get wrongly spun as truths. Other tiny bits of info like “but my tank was bad though” and “my healer didn’t dispel me >:(” continue to be spewed out as if completing the key isn’t the priority for anyone looking for pugs.