Battle Shout or Demoralizing Shout for AOE tanking?

What’s better for warrior AOE tanking? Battle shout or demoralizing shout? And why?

It is an old debate that Blizzard announced “split” fix on like october.

DS=43 per mob afflicted
BS=55 per person (included you and party pets) you buffed

So you do the math. Consider all threat you create will be splitted among all mobs in combat.

Ie. 5 man party vs 5 mobs. If you can DS all mobs you generate 215 total threat, 43 for each mob. If you BS 3 of your party you generate 165 total threat, 33 for each mob. If you BS 4 of your party you generate 220 total threat, 44 for each mob. If you BS 5 of your party you generate 275 total threat, 55 for each mob.

Basically look at the positioning and consider mobs count and/or party members you can buff with 1 BS.

One would be better than the other according the situation and numbers.

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Where did you find these numbers? I would like to find threat numbers for other abilities like thunderclap, sunder armour, revenge, etc.

If these numbers are correct, then as demoralizing shout does 43 per mob always, then battleshout is better in the following situations.

5 players buffed = 6 mobs max (45.83 per mob) = 275 total
4 players buffed = 5 mobs max (44 per mob) = 220 total
3 players buffed = 3 mobs max (55 per mob) = 165 total
2 players buffed = 2 mobs (55 per mob) = 110 total
1 players buffed = 1 mob (55 per mob) = 55 total

It seems as though it’s only worth it in the situations where all party members are being buffed and there are 4-6 mobs, or 4 party members are being buffed and there are 4-5 mobs. 3 or less you may as well just tab sunder, anything more you should use demoralizing shout maybe.

The question is, how should a warrior gain AOE threat? Should they just tab sunder and revenge?

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again with the misinformation, Demo shout does not increase threat generated per mob afflicted, it only generated 43 threat on mobs hit with demo shout, battleshout is the spell that generates more threat the more people you buff with it (pets also count) so with enough pets you can get a lot of threat gen out of battleshout.

demo shout is great for getting on the hatelists of enemies as if you’re not the guy doing the initial pull you won’t reliably end up on every mobs hatelist and thus generate 0 threat from battleshout as its mechanics are a bit wonky.

however the best thing you can do on pull threat wise is to ranged pull the enemy (arrow hits also generate threat), then as you are on all the mobs hate list (they all enter combat with you) you pop bloodrage (rage gen also generates threat) and pop battleshout on all 4 members of your party (+pets if any are around) also netting you threat on every mob you are in combat with.

battleshout threat is also increased by defensive stance + defiance talents, demo shout as its stuck with a very low threat value, which while increased defstance + defiance, those are % increases over a extremely low base value and thus don’t benefit that much, as such demo shout will never ever beat battleshout for AOE threat.

if you want really good AOE threat gen you’re probably still going to rely on things like sappers + stacking lots of thorns or dmg reflecting gear like the engineering shield that does dmg on block, some items that do damage when hit etc etc.

The BS functionality is still not vanilla like, but due to a lack of knowledge or understanding people never really complained about it

BS spam was so broken that it got nerfed as a part of the 2.0.x patches.

There are even old clips out there with warriors tanking the caster twin by just solo bs spamming themselves as that was safer than the entire warlock tanking theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZnrKgTnJM

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No misinformation.
It is 43 for each afflicted mob.
Advanced math: If you afflict 3 mobs. 43x3/3 omg it is 43…
Magic!

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So do you think battleshout is still ‘broken’? To me it doesn’t seem so. If you buff 5 party members, it does 275 threat in total. Revenge does 355 threat and only costs 5 rage.

not broken as in overpowered, but like broken as in not vanilla like - then again the f-ed up system was boring back then and it would trivialize a lot in the current game as well. I guess it makes sense that they didn’t reverse the 2.0 changes on BS

double checked it with our old MT. it was 2.0.1 (thx mura)
Fixed an issue where Warrior "Battle Shout" was causing too much threat.

story time: back in the days (i know people usually ignore posts when you start them like this)
we’ve started to abuse the bs spam after we’ve found out about it on the different warcraftmovie clips of other guilds on twins.
despite being on an EU 2nd wave server (-6 months of grinding gear to prep the raid) Onyxia claimed the 2nd german c’thun kill - but alas we did our homeworks to exploit everything we could get away with :stuck_out_tongue:
We’ve never had a warlock on twins - ever.

The biggest offender for me was how disgusting it was in the Noth fight.
Noth teleports back into the room. Initially we had our hunters assigned to aggro him to get him to run back to the dedicated tanking position.
Double multi and a distracting(600 threat shot) were often not good enough to get him to move into the direction you wanted him to be. But oh the f-ed up BS did the job alright as soon as Muradin started to abuse that flip there. Two BS and old noth was a puppy running back to his master without any healer slaughtering.
Eventually we’ve given up on the hunter failsafe system and just got permission to fire at him at will.

Now math wise. A single distracting shot is 600 threat. a single one off them on a ranged target could never be overpowered by two bs on a ranged target. Not to mention the burst from two multi shots and an auto coming out somewhere in between those 3 gcds

I guess in the end (as stated above) it is better for the game that we don’t get this messed up mechanic back into the game the way it worked before the prepatch nerf.

Engineering with oil of immolation

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both burst wise and long term. a good old mortar pull on a trash grp basically ensures your dominance long enough until stuff is so low health it will die before it reaches your squishies

ok go and be a bad tank then lol like I’m genuinely not sure what your point was, demo shout = 43 threat no matter what, battleshout increases threat gen per target hit, I dunno why you feel the need to be this stupid

275 threat on everything you are in combat with that ignores any immunity or range isn’t overpowered?

Guess that TBC nerf wasn’t needed then

also demo shout is worth more to use sometimes since you’ll take less damage from the mobs and make it easier for your healer

Yes Demo Shout is 43 no matter what as i said at very first post. So why you say “misinformation” and trying to play smart child with your one digit iq.

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https //classicwow live/guides/19/threat-guide-and-reference-table

is a decent source.

Hard to account for multi and auto, but BS rank 7 is 70 threat. So 350-490, depending on pets. Seems to check out: 2 battleshouts can outthreat the hunter.

you are taking the quote out of context if you only focus on the distracting shot

without salvation a 3 gcd double multi + auto + distract had often trouble to deter noth from slaughtering healers

at the same time the bs spam had no issue against it

and no our hunters were not trying to pull that off naked with lvl 1 weapons :wink:

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